NDSU in FBS?

[Mvemjsunpx]

10 teams better than Liberty last year?

NDSU
Illinois State
Northern Iowa
South Dakota State
Coastal Carolina
New Hampshire,
Jacksonville State
Eastern Washington
Sam Houston State
Villanova
Harvard
Montana
Richmond
Indiana State
Sorry...you only asked for 10. I'll stop

Liberty got a BIG record boost from the Big South

Huh? I don't think Liberty was a top-10 team either, but it wasn't because of their conference. The Big South ranked 2nd. in the Sagarins last year.

[Mvemjsunpx]

I'm honestly pretty befuddled that people single out the Sun Belt for ridicule like they do. Marshall and Nevada won the MAC and WAC in their first years in the FBS, but the Sun Belt is terrible because Georgia Southern and App State can compete right away in it? Also, it's terrible for App to lose to Liberty (arguably a top-10 FCS team last year), but no one mentions the Conference USA runner up losing to Northwestern State?

Marshall had Randy Moss in 1997, so that's not exactly a typical scenario.
Nevada won the Big West in their first I-A season, not the WAC. That conference was awful its last 10-or-so years of football existence.

[kalm]

10 teams better than Liberty last year?

NDSU
Illinois State
Northern Iowa
South Dakota State
Coastal Carolina
New Hampshire,
Jacksonville State
Eastern Washington
Sam Houston State
Villanova
Harvard
Montana
Richmond
Indiana State
Sorry...you only asked for 10. I'll stop

Liberty got a BIG record boost from the Big South

Huh? I don't think Liberty was a top-10 team either, but it wasn't because of their conference. The Big South ranked 2nd. in the Sagarins last year.

Really???

[clenz]

Huh? I don't think Liberty was a top-10 team either, but it wasn't because of their conference. The Big South ranked 2nd. in the Sagarins last year.

Really???

It was...somehow

Doesn't change how bad Liberty's quality win were...

Also, there was no quality wins

[kalm]

Really???

It was...somehow

Doesn't change how bad Liberty's quality win were...

Also, there was no quality wins

Sagarin Rankings...

[Mvemjsunpx]

Really???

It was...somehow

Doesn't change how bad Liberty's quality win were...

Also, there was no quality wins

Zzuuhhh? They beat Coastal, and then JMU in the first round. And App State won 6 in a row to end up with a winning record after losing to Liberty—that's certainly a quality win by FCS standards.

[SDHornet]

There's something funny about a fan of a Patriot League team saying this about a conference. It sounds exactly like the type of elitism the lower-tier conferences of the FCS resent and try to fight. At least the Sun Belt offers the maximum number of scholarships allowed by their subdivision.

I'm honestly pretty befuddled that people single out the Sun Belt for ridicule like they do. Marshall and Nevada won the MAC and WAC in their first years in the FBS, but the Sun Belt is terrible because Georgia Southern and App State can compete right away in it? Also, it's terrible for App to lose to Liberty (arguably a top-10 FCS team last year), but no one mentions the Conference USA runner up losing to Northwestern State?

BTW, for the talk about the Mountain West... the lowly Sun Belt's 4th place team beat Utah State in Logan, and the ULL team that App State abused in Lafayette beat Nevada by 2 touchdowns and it wasn't that close.

The Sun Belt isn't in a tier by itself, the gap between the best of the FCS and the G5 is a myth. I've said this on AGS for years and I'm now more convinced than ever. So yeah, of course NDSU can compete in the FBS, and not just NDSU.

What? You're leapfrogging the noticeable gap within FBS itself. Anecdotal evidence aside.

This. The MWC isn't what is use to be for a few reasons. 1) Utah, TCU, and BYU (3 of the stronger MWC programs) left/were poached. And most importantly 2) I think we are seeing the P5 and their resource streams starting to go to work. The gap between the P5 and G5 will start to get extremely noticeable with the newly mined playoff monies (much greater share than what the G5 gets) and other revenue streams (conference specific TV channels).

There was a time when the MWC use to be worth tuning in to, not so much anymore. That conference is a shell of its former self (can be said about its hoops product too).

[Killamike259]

Let me rephrase what my intentions were.

Would NDSU be able to compete in a conference such as the AAC, C-USA, or Big12.

This was not directed towards the Sun Belt. I just used Georgia Southern as an example of a team that was a good 1-AA team that went up to FBS football and did well(even if it was in a sub-par conference)

[dbackjon]

Let me rephrase what my intentions were.

Would NDSU be able to compete in a conference such as the AAC, C-USA, or Big12.

This was not directed towards the Sun Belt. I just used Georgia Southern as an example of a team that was a good 1-AA team that went up to FBS football and did well(even if it was in a sub-par conference)

AAC - probably not. C-USA - would get Bowl Eligible.

Big 12 - NO

[SuperHornet]

Let me rephrase what my intentions were.

Would NDSU be able to compete in a conference such as the AAC, C-USA, or Big12.

This was not directed towards the Sun Belt. I just used Georgia Southern as an example of a team that was a good 1-AA team that went up to FBS football and did well(even if it was in a sub-par conference)

AAC - probably not. C-USA - would get Bowl Eligible.

Big 12 - NO

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhtttttttt.

AAC - Conference title from the get-go.

C-USA - Conference title from the get-go.

Big 12 - Middle-of-the-Pack and bowl eligible.

[AZGrizFan]

AAC - probably not. C-USA - would get Bowl Eligible.

Big 12 - NO

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhtttttttt.

AAC - Conference title from the get-go.

C-USA - Conference title from the get-go.

Big 12 - Middle-of-the-Pack and bowl eligible.

defuckinglusional.

[Mvemjsunpx]

Let me rephrase what my intentions were.

Would NDSU be able to compete in a conference such as the AAC, C-USA, or Big12.

This was not directed towards the Sun Belt. I just used Georgia Southern as an example of a team that was a good 1-AA team that went up to FBS football and did well(even if it was in a sub-par conference)

AAC - probably not. C-USA - would get Bowl Eligible.

Big 12 - NO

This.

NDSU in the Big Twen would be like the Griz in their Pacific Coast Conference days.

[JohnStOnge]

First let me say that CUSA is basically another Sun Belt now. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Now to the Sun Belt. What I always do is look at how teams compete against the mainstream of FBS. During the BCS era I considered that to be the BCS leagues plus Notre Dame. Now I consider it to be Big 5 teams plus Notre Dame.

I just looked at how the Sun Belt's done against the mainstream over the past five seasons. The league went 8 - 91 (0.081) against such competition. The league is obviously WAY out of the mainstream on the low side.

My opinion is that the Sun Belt is equivalent to a strong FCS conference. The league went 24-8 against FCS opponents during the past five seasons but a lot of that was against SWAC teams, MEAC teams, and weak Southland or OVC opponents like Nichols State and Austin Peay. I consider the "power leagues" of FCS over time to have been the MVC, Colonial, Southern, and Big Sky. Against those leagues (they didn't play any against Colonial teams but did against the others) the Sun Belt was 2-4. Against FCS playoff teams the Sun Belt was 3-4.

To me it's no surprise that Georgia Southern and Appalachian State did well in the Sun Belt. They were top FCS programs moving into what is a FCS caliber league. And I think it's notable that combined the two programs went 14-2 against Sun Belt competition while going 0-5 against FBS teams that weren't in the Sun Belt.

It goes back to what I said earlier: If you define success in FBS as being able to compete in a league like the Sun Belt that is basically a FCS caliber league anyway, then yes there's a good chance for a top FCS program to move to FBS and be successful. But if you define it as being able to win more than you lose against the mainstream of FBS success is very unlikely.

[SDHornet]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhtttttttt.

AAC - Conference title from the get-go.

C-USA - Conference title from the get-go.

Big 12 - Middle-of-the-Pack and bowl eligible.

defuckinglusional.

Just a little.

[JohnStOnge]

but the Sun Belt is terrible because Georgia Southern and App State can compete right away in it?

No no. I don't think the Sun Belt is terrible as a FBS league because Georgia Southern and App State were able to compete right way. My opinion predates Georgia Southern and App State joining the league. I've followed it for years.

I am a Southland Conference fan and I've followed the head to head games. The Southland is a middle of the pack FCS league and as of now the series between the two leagues since the Sun Belt started as a football conference is 11-11. My own school, McNeese State, is 3-0 against Sun Belt teams.

What I would say is that I EXPECTED Georgia Southern and Appalachian State to do well in the Sun Belt because I did not think it was going to be a big step up in competition for them if it was a step up at all.

I looked at it as a FCS caliber league for years before Georgia Southern and Appalachian State joined it.

[SuperHornet]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhtttttttt.

AAC - Conference title from the get-go.

C-USA - Conference title from the get-go.

Big 12 - Middle-of-the-Pack and bowl eligible.

defuckinglusional.

Not really.

For all intents and purposes, the C-USA is the old Sun Belt, which in and of itself was FBSINO. The CURRENT Sun Belt is even worse, having had to replace the schools they lost to the C-USA (grabbed because the C-USA had lost schools to larger/better eastern conferences) with FCS call-ups. So to say that a school that routinely beats Big XII schools wouldn't compete for a C-USA title immediately isn't that much of a stretch at all.

Now, the AAC. Let's start in the middle: Temple. A .500 team that lost to Navy, Houston, and UCF. If NDSU can't beat Temple (and those behind Temple) after making a habit of beating higher rated FBS programs, there's something wrong. Houston lost to crap call-up UTSA and UCF. NDSU destroys Houston, IMO. East Carolina is one of those programs that's often on the cusp of something big but also often blows it. NDSU can handle them, though it would be harder than the others we've discussed thus far. UCF actually had a decent season last year, but they're USUALLY down in the dumps. NDSU beats them, too. Now we come to the two AAC schools that have the best shot at taking down NDSU. Cincinnati has had a pretty good run of late, so an NDSU win there would be tough. Same can be said for Memphis State. I would consider those two to be NDSU peers given where the Bison are now and where they COULD be given FBS-level recruiting.

Much harder would be the Big XII. Win the title from the get-go, NDSU would not. Again, let's check from the middle. Oh, say, West Virginia. They're by no means what they were under Rich Rodriguez, and probably won't be for a long time. The Big XII move was probably a mistake for them. WVU is probably slightly better than NDSU. Texas on the high side of WVU last year had a BIG downer year for them. On average, every Big XII from TX on up to the top would probably beat NDSU by a couple of TDs or better. Let's move down. OK State's season was mediocre at best, beating a down SW MO State that wouldn't be near beating NDSU even in a good year. In most years, OK State would probably be a peer for NDSU, but in a good year they could make some noise. Going on to the bottom, NDSU beats the remainder fairly handily, though to say they "destroy" them might be stretching it a bit. In fact, NDSU beat IA State (the current Big XII bottom-feeder) by three TDs last year. In fact, IA State barely beat MAC Toledo by a TD; I don't think anyone here would contest NDSU beating ANY of the MACs. So, I think my premise that NDSU would be middle-of-the-road in the Big XII is fairly solid.

Now, does this mean that I think that NDSU SHOULD do this? Decidedly not. Going to the Sun Belt, C-USA, or AAC could mean immediate titles and bowls, but those would be bowls that few outside of the schools involved would watch and could cost the school a boatload of cash. Becoming a middling Big XII program might help the conference get closer to getting their championship game back, but it certainly won't help NDSU get a bowl, though they WILL be bowl-eligible largely because of OOC. While I firmly believe that though NDSU is good enough to hold their own in the G5, they're certainly MUCH better off in the FCS, where they are now a rather permanent fixture in the playoffs, for which travel costs are guaranteed by the NCAA, even assuming that they would ever have to play on the road, which isn't likely for the foreseeable future. For the NDSUs of the world, being top dog in the FCS has to be more profitable than jumping to G5, most of which might well be forced down to FCS anyway in the long-anticipated restructuring of D-I.

[AZGrizFan]

defuckinglusional.

Not really.

For all intents and purposes, the C-USA is the old Sun Belt, which in and of itself was FBSINO. The CURRENT Sun Belt is even worse, having had to replace the schools they lost to the C-USA (grabbed because the C-USA had lost schools to larger/better eastern conferences) with FCS call-ups. So to say that a school that routinely beats Big XII schools wouldn't compete for a C-USA title immediately isn't that much of a stretch at all.

Now, the AAC. Let's start in the middle: Temple. A .500 team that lost to Navy, Houston, and UCF. If NDSU can't beat Temple (and those behind Temple) after making a habit of beating higher rated FBS programs, there's something wrong. Houston lost to crap call-up UTSA and UCF. NDSU destroys Houston, IMO. East Carolina is one of those programs that's often on the cusp of something big but also often blows it. NDSU can handle them, though it would be harder than the others we've discussed thus far. UCF actually had a decent season last year, but they're USUALLY down in the dumps. NDSU beats them, too. Now we come to the two AAC schools that have the best shot at taking down NDSU. Cincinnati has had a pretty good run of late, so an NDSU win there would be tough. Same can be said for Memphis State. I would consider those two to be NDSU peers given where the Bison are now and where they COULD be given FBS-level recruiting.

Much harder would be the Big XII. Win the title from the get-go, NDSU would not. Again, let's check from the middle. Oh, say, West Virginia. They're by no means what they were under Rich Rodriguez, and probably won't be for a long time. The Big XII move was probably a mistake for them. WVU is probably slightly better than NDSU. Texas on the high side of WVU last year had a BIG downer year for them. On average, every Big XII from TX on up to the top would probably beat NDSU by a couple of TDs or better. Let's move down. OK State's season was mediocre at best, beating a down SW MO State that wouldn't be near beating NDSU even in a good year. In most years, OK State would probably be a peer for NDSU, but in a good year they could make some noise. Going on to the bottom, NDSU beats the remainder fairly handily, though to say they "destroy" them might be stretching it a bit. In fact, NDSU beat IA State (the current Big XII bottom-feeder) by three TDs last year. In fact, IA State barely beat MAC Toledo by a TD; I don't think anyone here would contest NDSU beating ANY of the MACs. So, I think my premise that NDSU would be middle-of-the-road in the Big XII is fairly solid.

Oh, good LORD. You're basing all your "analyses" on LAST seasons' performances? In a full season (even LAST year), NDSU finishes above Iowa State, Kansas and MAYBE Texas Tech. That puts them 8th in a conference of 11 teams. That, by ANY stretch, isn't "middlin'".

Like I said...defuckinglusional.

[Pwns]

BTW, since we like to use computer rankings to compare FBS leagues to FCS leagues, Georgia Southern was rated as a top-10 G5 team so...yeah, I stand by what I say about the gap between the best of the FCS and most of the G5 as being more a reason top FCS programs can compete in G5 leagues right away.

[clenz]

The issue NDSU, or pretty much every FCS team would have is depth.

There are a lot of teams with the starting 22 that can line up with every SBC team, and 90% of CUSA, MWC, AAC, MAC teams and be every bit as good, or better. That's great for 1 game early in the season.

The issue is playing a full season no one ever stays completely healthy. The second or third guy on the depth chart becomes very important, even if the team is relatively healthy.

There are teams (NDSU, Montana, UNI, SHSU (maybe), ISUr (maybe), Montana State, etc... that, if given 2 or 3 years to build into a full 85 and they very well likely would be 1/3rd of SBC, MAC, CUSA, and AAC. As it stands right now though...no

[kalm]

BTW, since we like to use computer rankings to compare FBS leagues to FCS leagues, Georgia Southern was rated as a top-10 G5 team so...yeah, I stand by what I say about the gap between the best of the FCS and most of the G5 as being more a reason top FCS programs can compete in G5 leagues right away.

OK.

[Gil Dobie]

EWU made the jump for 2015......................well at least their QB did. Would be nice to see Adams have a great year at Oregon.

[AZGrizFan]

EWU made the jump for 2015......................well at least their QB did. Would be nice to see Adams have a great year at Oregon.

My money is on Adams not even starting.

[SuperHornet]

EWU made the jump for 2015......................well at least their QB did. Would be nice to see Adams have a great year at Oregon.

My money is on Adams not even starting.

We'll see.

Here's some pretty good analysis re why Adams might be a good choice to start: the only other legit choice, while impressive in the spring game, doesn't have all that much in-game experience. The catch: Adams only has 80 days to beat him out after graduating from EWU. Speculation is that BOTH may play in Oregon's first game, coincidentally against EWU. There's speculation that both may play the entire season, but that's counter-balanced by the old adage that two QBs = NO QBs. There's precedent against that adage; it only happened once to the best of my knowledge, but it's a very striking counter-example: the most explosive offense in NFL history, the L.A. Rams of the early 1950s with UCLA's Bob Waterfield and Oregon's Norm Van Brocklin. The Rams tried it again later with Van Brocklin and Vandy's Bill Wade, but the failure resulted in Van Brocklin's trade to Philly, and Wade's later transfer to Chicago.

Adams starting for one season in Eugene is something to think about, anyway....

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footba ... kie-052015

[AZGrizFan]

My money is on Adams not even starting.

We'll see.

Here's some pretty good analysis re why Adams might be a good choice to start: the only other legit choice, while impressive in the spring game, doesn't have all that much in-game experience. The catch: Adams only has 80 days to beat him out after graduating from EWU. Speculation is that BOTH may play in Oregon's first game, coincidentally against EWU. There's speculation that both may play the entire season, but that's counter-balanced by the old adage that two QBs = NO QBs. There's precedent against that adage; it only happened once to the best of my knowledge, but it's a very striking counter-example: the most explosive offense in NFL history, the L.A. Rams of the early 1950s with UCLA's Bob Waterfield and Oregon's Norm Van Brocklin. The Rams tried it again later with Van Brocklin and Vandy's Bill Wade, but the failure resulted in Van Brocklin's trade to Philly, and Wade's later transfer to Chicago.

Adams starting for one season in Eugene is something to think about, anyway....

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footba ... kie-052015

He doesn't have 80 days. He's got about 28. He couldn't attend spring practices, and can't practice with the team (even informally) until he "graduates" from EWU (whatever THAT means ). I'm gonna bet he doesn't see the field against EWU---they might try and kill him.

[dbackjon]

We'll see.

Here's some pretty good analysis re why Adams might be a good choice to start: the only other legit choice, while impressive in the spring game, doesn't have all that much in-game experience. The catch: Adams only has 80 days to beat him out after graduating from EWU. Speculation is that BOTH may play in Oregon's first game, coincidentally against EWU. There's speculation that both may play the entire season, but that's counter-balanced by the old adage that two QBs = NO QBs. There's precedent against that adage; it only happened once to the best of my knowledge, but it's a very striking counter-example: the most explosive offense in NFL history, the L.A. Rams of the early 1950s with UCLA's Bob Waterfield and Oregon's Norm Van Brocklin. The Rams tried it again later with Van Brocklin and Vandy's Bill Wade, but the failure resulted in Van Brocklin's trade to Philly, and Wade's later transfer to Chicago.

Adams starting for one season in Eugene is something to think about, anyway....

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footba ... kie-052015

He doesn't have 80 days. He's got about 28. He couldn't attend spring practices, and can't practice with the team (even informally) until he "graduates" from EWU (whatever THAT means ). I'm gonna bet he doesn't see the field against EWU---they might try and kill him.

For football players, they have to color in a football field. Staying within the lines. EWU provides two crayons - tampon red, and screamin-eagle pasty white.