Free Marketer complains when screwed by Free Market

[Chizzang]

Oh fuck off, RuPaul.

I wear one flowery shirt and now I'm RuPaul....

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Oh fuck off, RuPaul.

I wear one flowery shirt and now I'm RuPaul....

Rupaul dresses way manlier than you do.

[Grizalltheway]

Oh fuck off, RuPaul.

I wear one flowery shirt and now I'm RuPaul....

The fuck? I thought we hugged it out.

[Chizzang]

I wear one flowery shirt and now I'm RuPaul....

The fuck? I thought we hugged it out.

I'll be okay...

[CID1990]

It's another Louie quote completely supporting your argument.

Btw, you ingrate, the appropriate response to CID's yapping about your ankles would be..."yeah, but it's Asia. "

You're welcome.

Meh... his love fest with Asian airlines is like GATW love of European Socialism
completely delusional and applied out of context

i get it-

airlines in SE Asia dont fit the argument that the free market doesn't work well in air travel

so its delusional and out of context to point it out

somebody call Clitz I think he's been giving his password to Jill Stain again

[JohnStOnge]

If he'd said government should do something about it I'd think you have him. But I didn't see that. Don't see him saying anything about how that particular free market ought to be regulated. He's just criticizing the airline. Just criticizing the service.

He ends it by saying he prefers to drive because he doesn't like the service provided by the airlines. What he's saying is that because they have shitty service he prefers not to use their services. That's completely free market.

The fact that you support free markets doesn't mean you can't say you don't like the service provided by a service provider.

Please review entire thread for context.

Ok I read each post before mine and I don't see anything about the "context" that affects what I wrote. There are some side discussions, etc. ad there usually are in threads. But the bottom line is that the guy didn't say anything about not thinking that the free market is the best thing. He just complained about the service that airlines provide and said that he prefers to drive as a result. That is perfectly consistent with how free markets work.

If I buy a car then end up thinking it's unreliable and generally sucks then I say so that doesn't mean I don't believe in free markets. I just am not satisfied with the car I bought and probably won't buy such a car again. Probably won't buy from the same manufacturer again for at least a while. And that's part of the free market thing. It's Darwinist.

[AZGrizFan]

Please review entire thread for context.

Ok I read each post before mine and I don't see anything about the "context" that affects what I wrote. There are some side discussions, etc. ad there usually are in threads. But the bottom line is that the guy didn't say anything about not thinking that the free market is the best thing. He just complained about the service that airlines provide and said that he prefers to drive as a result. That is perfectly consistent with how free markets work.

If I buy a car then end up thinking it's unreliable and generally sucks then I say so that doesn't mean I don't believe in free markets. I just am not satisfied with the car I bought and probably won't buy such a car again. Probably won't buy from the same manufacturer again for at least a while. And that's part of the free market thing. It's Darwinist.

Don't bother, Jon. They're like Bluto in Animal House on his "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" rants....

[Chizzang]

Ok I read each post before mine and I don't see anything about the "context" that affects what I wrote. There are some side discussions, etc. ad there usually are in threads. But the bottom line is that the guy didn't say anything about not thinking that the free market is the best thing. He just complained about the service that airlines provide and said that he prefers to drive as a result. That is perfectly consistent with how free markets work.

If I buy a car then end up thinking it's unreliable and generally sucks then I say so that doesn't mean I don't believe in free markets. I just am not satisfied with the car I bought and probably won't buy such a car again. Probably won't buy from the same manufacturer again for at least a while. And that's part of the free market thing. It's Darwinist.

Don't bother, Jon. They're like Bluto in Animal House on his "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" rants....

But isn't that what happens to every thread on this forum..?

[Chizzang]

but I never saw TransAsia- rather, I saw Royal Thai and Singapore - very reputable airlines with records commensurate with US carriers- charging 150 bucks for international flights that would cost you 600 bucks on United AND you get a pissy 55 year old stewardess who hates your guts and passive aggressively lets you know it-

maintenance costs dont come close to explaining the difference

Singapore Airlines / GOVERNMENT OWNED..!
Thai Airways / GOVERNMENT OWNED..!
Malaysia Airlines / government owned

you're making very stupid and uniformed comparisons
I was trying to move on not to embarrass you but you insist

Should U.S. airlines be government owned and funded
so the wealthy taxes can buy the prices of tickets down..?

You're either uninformed and arguing out of your ass - or a closet communist

[CID1990]

but I never saw TransAsia- rather, I saw Royal Thai and Singapore - very reputable airlines with records commensurate with US carriers- charging 150 bucks for international flights that would cost you 600 bucks on United AND you get a pissy 55 year old stewardess who hates your guts and passive aggressively lets you know it-

maintenance costs dont come close to explaining the difference

Singapore Airlines / GOVERNMENT OWNED..!
Thai Airways / GOVERNMENT OWNED..!
Malaysia Airlines / government owned

you're making very stupid and uniformed comparisons
I was trying to move on not to embarrass you but you insist

Should U.S. airlines be government owned and funded
so the wealthy taxes can buy the prices of tickets down..?

You're either uninformed and arguing out of your ass - or a closet communist

I never said they werent government owned- thats the norm in most of the world

but their ticket prices arent subsidized- they are competing directly with Asiana and all the other one-off airlines in the region- the ones that are "private" and doing quite well

*** and (here's where youre either being dishonest or lazy - i cant tell which) when you say government owned you are CONVENIENTLY leaving out a key point: we'll use Singapore as an example- the government owns controlling shares (a little over 50%) and the government has an official stance of TOTAL NON INVOLVEMENT in the management of the company - its in their charter.

in essence, they are not in any shape or form like a government run program - but our OWN airlines certainly behave that way - poor customer service and poor management

come to think of it, are you positive United and American ARENT government owned?

[Chizzang]

Singapore Airlines / GOVERNMENT OWNED..!
Thai Airways / GOVERNMENT OWNED..!
Malaysia Airlines / government owned

you're making very stupid and uniformed comparisons
I was trying to move on not to embarrass you but you insist

Should U.S. airlines be government owned and funded
so the wealthy taxes can buy the prices of tickets down..?

You're either uninformed and arguing out of your ass - or a closet communist

I never said they werent government owned- thats the norm in most of the world

but their ticket prices arent subsidized- they are competing directly with Asiana and all the other one-off airlines in the region- the ones that are "private" and doing quite well

*** and (here's where youre either being dishonest or lazy - i cant tell which) when you say government owned you are CONVENIENTLY leaving out a key point: we'll use Singapore as an example- the government owns controlling shares (a little over 50%) and the government has an official stance of TOTAL NON INVOLVEMENT in the management of the company - its in their charter.

in essence, they are not in any shape or form like a government run program - but our OWN airlines certainly behave that way - poor customer service and poor management

come to think of it, are you positive United and American ARENT government owned?

You're going to lose this debate fairly easily
Singapore Airlines is 56% owned by their Federal Government
The Airlines government agency SETS PRICES
last year the Airline was PUBLICLY told to lower prices

Low prices - set by the Government

Next...

[kalm]

Ok I read each post before mine and I don't see anything about the "context" that affects what I wrote. There are some side discussions, etc. ad there usually are in threads. But the bottom line is that the guy didn't say anything about not thinking that the free market is the best thing. He just complained about the service that airlines provide and said that he prefers to drive as a result. That is perfectly consistent with how free markets work.

If I buy a car then end up thinking it's unreliable and generally sucks then I say so that doesn't mean I don't believe in free markets. I just am not satisfied with the car I bought and probably won't buy such a car again. Probably won't buy from the same manufacturer again for at least a while. And that's part of the free market thing. It's Darwinist.

Don't bother, Jon. They're like Bluto in Animal House on his "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" rants....

Or you could just admit to free market over-the-topedness, display a little gratitude at the wonder of flying, and be done with it.

'I had to sit on the runway for 40 minutes.' Oh my god, really? What happened then, did you fly through the air like a bird, incredibly? Did you soar into the clouds, impossibly? Did you partake in the miracle of human flight and then land softly on giant tires that you couldn't even conceive how they fucking put air in them?

-Louie

[AZGrizFan]

The "wonder" of flying? Holy shit....that's hilarious.

Do you stare at your TV every day and display gratitude for the "wonder" of television?

[Grizalltheway]

Do you take every modern convenience for granted? Cause it sure as hell sounds like it.

[kalm]

Do you take every modern convenience for granted? Cause it sure as hell sounds like it.

"Non contributing product sponge cunt"

Why doesn't he just build one?

Spoiler: show

sorry, might as well just steal the whole bit...

[Pwns]

You pull the same crap the airlines do in selling almost any kind of good or service and you won't be in business very long. What could possibly be an explanation for why airlines can get away with it other than airlines having too much competition?

[YoUDeeMan]

Well I for one am curious to hear one solid example
of FAA Regulation related to competition, commerce and transactions
that influences the Airline business and tilts the tables

I will gladly admit I am wrong or misguided - please enlighten me
I am curious to hear about "the heavily regulated airline business"
in regards to passenger travel and competitive balance

Fire Away...

Why are you focused only on the FAA regulations?

Are there not other government forces/regulations that result in higher airfares...specifically impacting carrier costs and competition at certain airports?

Hint: the answer is yes.

Ahem.

Chizz...happy with the airlines...implies that there are no government regulations or actions that impact service or airfares...ignorant of what really happens behind the scenes.

[AZGrizFan]

Do you take every modern convenience for granted? Cause it sure as hell sounds like it.

We have been flying for over 100 years. At what point do we start taking it for granted? 110 years? 120? 150? I'm sure you'll let us know....then again, I'm still waiting for the list of the dead that I'm supposed to have respect for.

[CID1990]

I never said they werent government owned- thats the norm in most of the world

but their ticket prices arent subsidized- they are competing directly with Asiana and all the other one-off airlines in the region- the ones that are "private" and doing quite well

*** and (here's where youre either being dishonest or lazy - i cant tell which) when you say government owned you are CONVENIENTLY leaving out a key point: we'll use Singapore as an example- the government owns controlling shares (a little over 50%) and the government has an official stance of TOTAL NON INVOLVEMENT in the management of the company - its in their charter.

in essence, they are not in any shape or form like a government run program - but our OWN airlines certainly behave that way - poor customer service and poor management

come to think of it, are you positive United and American ARENT government owned?

You're going to lose this debate fairly easily
Singapore Airlines is 56% owned by their Federal Government
The Airlines government agency SETS PRICES
last year the Airline was PUBLICLY told to lower prices

Low prices - set by the Government

Next...

I don't think you understand the argument here- I asked a simple question- what is the fundamental difference between the US market and the Asian market?

For that matter, we could use the European market-
Their prices are similar but their customer service is much better

It's an honest question and one you didn't attempt to answer- you just went full klamdawg - claiming government ownership is the difference

Why are prices so low in Asia? The few government owned airlines are driving prices (I doubt it)? Are the government owned airlines driving all the prices? How can the market support so many airlines if the government controlled ones are fixing prices low? Why do they manage to be leagues ahead of the US in customer service?

You started with maintenance - then you moved to government ownership - those don't explain the cost differential and they certainly don't explain the customer service differential (we are the worst in the WORLD on that one)

And here's a related question- if the US airlines are truly in unfettered competition with each other (and given that prices are not divergent enough to give any one airline an advantage)- why don't we see a customer service blitz by one or two of them in an attempt to set themselves apart? (a successful attempt?)

[Chizzang]

You're going to lose this debate fairly easily
Singapore Airlines is 56% owned by their Federal Government
The Airlines government agency SETS PRICES
last year the Airline was PUBLICLY told to lower prices

Low prices - set by the Government

Next...

I don't think you understand the argument here- I asked a simple question- what is the fundamental difference between the US market and the Asian market?

For that matter, we could use the European market-
Their prices are similar but their customer service is much better

It's an honest question and one you didn't attempt to answer- you just went full klamdawg - claiming government ownership is the difference

Why are prices so low in Asia? The few government owned airlines are driving prices (I doubt it)? Are the government owned airlines driving all the prices? How can the market support so many airlines if the government controlled ones are fixing prices low? Why do they manage to be leagues ahead of the US in customer service?

You started with maintenance - then you moved to government ownership - those don't explain the cost differential and they certainly don't explain the customer service differential (we are the worst in the WORLD on that one)

And here's a related question- if the US airlines are truly in unfettered competition with each other (and given that prices are not divergent enough to give any one airline an advantage)- why don't we see a customer service blitz by one or two of them in an attempt to set themselves apart? (a successful attempt?)

Why don;t we see a customer service blitz..?
Because every major airline in the U.S. is booked beyond capacity
Why try harder and work more when people are standing in line - in record numbers to get a seat

Jeezus you've gone stone cold STUPID on me
Free Market means you do only the minimum you need to maximize profits
I thought everybody knew that

And YES Governments own and set the airline prices in Asia

Next...

[CID1990]

I'll just have to disagree with you on the second point

Prices in Asia do see some government control- but that isn't the prime mover on ticket prices. There is a glut of carriers there. Just to fly from Saigon to Bangkok I had 5 airline choices- two of them were government owned, and one of them stops just short of giving happy endings to all of their customers. If the plane is going to be full anyway (and they all are- just like in the,US) then why bother?

The difference also has absolutely zero to do with customer service - and not just with the airlines - attention to detail in customer service is pervading all levels of commerce in Asia- they "get it"

We used to get it, but we don't anymore

And that brings me to your first point- you are correct about the free market in that sense- but there are plenty of free marketeers who understand that actively striving to bring down prices so as to undercut the competition while simultaneously providing good customer service is precisely how you maximize profits- I would pay 100 dollars more to fly Korean Airways just to stay the hell away from United

Elon Musk gets it, Apple gets it, the entire Asian service industry gets it

US airlines don't. If they are full to the gills then why don't they add routes? If they are booked solid, then it makes sense to throw a few more planes out there, doesn't it?