The Planned Parenthood video...

[89Hen]

rape

life in danger

annnnnd THERE it is.

[CID1990]

This idea you have that only the elite select few moralists understand the tragedy of abortion
should actually be embarrassing - but you wear it proudly

I dont think I am elite and I certainly dont think I am in some secret minority that understands it-

but as the doctor in the video so clearly points out over her glass of wine and salad - some of us seem very adept at accepting it, and maybe even intentionally dehumanizing the fetus?

when there is someone as obviously sociopathically disconnected as that woman is - then I see no problem (or cause for embarrassment) in calling it out

so think of this as my anti-abortion way of pointing out to you that ya know, we killed all the indians dontcha know (or the 5 million other things that liberals think THEY are the only ones that know and love to remind us about ad nauseum)

so welcome to the world of being condescended to by someone who thinks he's the only person who ever read a book - how do you like it?

[Chizzang]

This idea you have that only the elite select few moralists understand the tragedy of abortion
should actually be embarrassing - but you wear it proudly

I dont think I am elite and I certainly dont think I am in some secret minority that understands it-

but as the doctor in the video so clearly points out over her glass of wine and salad - some of us seem very adept at accepting it, and maybe even intentionally dehumanizing the fetus?

when there is someone as obviously sociopathically disconnected as that woman is - then I see no problem (or cause for embarrassment) in calling it out

so think of this as my anti-abortion way of pointing out to you that ya know, we killed all the indians dontcha know (or the 5 million other things that liberals think THEY are the only ones that know and love to remind us about ad nauseum)

so welcome to the world of being condescended to by someone who thinks he's the only person who ever read a book - how do you like it?

How do I like it?
I love it...!



You nasty Limousine Conservative
Gee: I could probably start an entire Television network about Limousine Conservatives

[D1B]

No, Joe, it's a health decision, for women.

Next....

Oh, bullshit.

I gave up the "abortion is murder" rhetoric. So you've got to give up the "abortion is a health decision" bullshit. You know damn well that abortion is often -- very often -- purely elective.

Sure, abortion can be, in some circumstances, a health decision, and those instances present a different moral dimension than elective abortion. I will grant you that. Just as abortion in cases of rape presents a different moral dimension.

But you should grant me that elective abortion at 30 weeks can reasonably be called "murder."

So let's drop the rhetoric and face the question. Morally acceptable compromises can only be reached by recognizing that the decision to abort reflects significant moral dimensions.

Women's health decision. Sorry, you ain't in charge.

[D1B]

It's not evil to save the life of a mother, the result of rape or incest.

aint evil if they're the victims of fucking churches like yours making it impossible to secure birth control

aint evil if the mother has AIDS

It's not evil if the father is some shithead like Alphagriz and envisions a life of misery for the child

aint evil if the mother is too young, mentally infirm or cannot provide a decent life for a child

aint evil if the mother is not ready to give up her entire life and or be impoverished by a pregnancy

aint evil if the mother was pressured into sex

Thanks to orgs like planned parenthood, abortions are at an all time low and going lower.

Guys like you Hen and your fucking church aint foolin anyone. Go ahead with your false outrage but we all know you're only interested in controlling the sex lives of women. Your church has been doin it for years.

visit plannedparenthood.org to make a donation to end abortion.

So now I'm a Catholic.



Father Hurtz musta ripped you up good in the Rectory.

All your excuses in bold type are (not only ignorant, but) elective, preventable, and have absolutely nothing to do with a woman's health. Just lazy women who don't care about their health using abortion as a form of birth control.

Try again, Stumpy.

Blow it out your distended ass, dipshit.

You hate the fact that women are in charge here.

All health issues, dimwit. Go bomb a planned parenthood clinic and get it out of your system

[JoltinJoe]

Your comparison doesn't really hold.

And you are contradicting yourself.

You said earlier in this thread that EVERYONE thinks abortion at 30 weeks is horrendous. Which means that, at some point, EVERYONE thinks abortion becomes immoral.

So then the whole discussion involves a weighing of moral criteria, and thus the decision has moral significance and consequences.

At some point, you have already agreed, abortion is immoral, because the moral consequences of the decision become so grave. Then the whole discussion is about why other people reach the same conclusion you do, but at an earlier point.

Joe,
Yes I understand for centuries your faith's belief that every sperm is sacred...

Answer me this: Mr. Moralist (true story)
A 27-year-old mother of four was pregnant and seriously ill with pulmonary hypertension. She was bedridden and it was clear that her pregnancy would lead to the death of both her and her potential fifth child. Sensing that this was an extreme case, and that death was highly likely if she did not terminate the pregnancy, Sister Margaret McBride decided to speak with the woman. The woman wanted to terminate her pregnancy and Sister McBride allowed for an abortion to proceed. The procedure saved the life of the mother. Sister McBride was excommunicated from the church...

Let's start the conversation there Joe...



Your Religion has a long track record of being absolutely TERRIBLE at these kinds of logical debates
and quite frankly immoral by even a caveman's standards of ethics
so I'm anxious to see how you're going to "help me understand"

The facts are you present them of this case, while widely reported, are apparently not the entire truth. That being said, if the matter was as you present it, the bishop who excommunicated the nun acted improperly. Procedures necessary to save the life of the mother are permitted by Catholic teaching, even if a fetus is lost, so long as the intent is to save the life of the mother and not abort the fetus. And this is true even if the procedure will cause the death of the fetus.

So medical procedures necessary to save the life of the mother are ok.

What's your next exception?

[JoltinJoe]

It just gets worse and worse for Planned Parenthood. New video release in which PP representative says things contradictory to things that PP said after the first two videos. Shocking.

http://www.mrctv.org/blog/planned-paren ... nti-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently these guys have video galore and each release is going to get progressively worse.

When is the DOJ going to start the PP investigation??

[kalm]

It just gets worse and worse for Planned Parenthood. New video release in which PP representative says things contradictory to things that PP said after the first two videos. Shocking.

http://www.mrctv.org/blog/planned-paren ... nti-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently these guys have video galore and each release is going to get progressively worse.

When is the DOJ going to start the PP investigation??

Aren't you just a little bit skeptical of these videos?

[Chizzang]

It just gets worse and worse for Planned Parenthood. New video release in which PP representative says things contradictory to things that PP said after the first two videos. Shocking.

http://www.mrctv.org/blog/planned-paren ... nti-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently these guys have video galore and each release is going to get progressively worse.

When is the DOJ going to start the PP investigation??

Aren't you just a little bit skeptical of these videos?

He was very skeptical of the reports and data assembled against the Catholic Church
In fact he assured us it was entirely concocted nonsense

But this is totally real... and way different

[JoltinJoe]

Aren't you just a little bit skeptical of these videos?

He was very skeptical of the reports and data assembled against the Catholic Church
In fact he assured us it was entirely concocted nonsense

But this is totally real... and way different

Well, my observations about the abuse scandal have proven to be accurate. There are now FOUR studies that suggest that the rate of abuse by Catholic priests is lower than the rate of abuse by clergy in other denominations; lower than the rate of public school teachers; and lower than the rate among the population at large.

A child is far more likely to be sexually abused by a school teacher or a relative.

Others have just proven more adept at covering up their misdeeds. And lawyers are not going to take cases against smaller denominations with no centralized assets.

[JoltinJoe]

It just gets worse and worse for Planned Parenthood. New video release in which PP representative says things contradictory to things that PP said after the first two videos. Shocking.

http://www.mrctv.org/blog/planned-paren ... nti-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently these guys have video galore and each release is going to get progressively worse.

When is the DOJ going to start the PP investigation??

Aren't you just a little bit skeptical of these videos?

Why should I be? They've posted the entire videos and they seem as bad as the portions they have circulated.

If you don't think PP is illegally selling fetal tissue, and trying to make it look like it is just recovering "costs," you are being very naive.

[Grizalltheway]

He was very skeptical of the reports and data assembled against the Catholic Church
In fact he assured us it was entirely concocted nonsense

But this is totally real... and way different

Others have just proven more adept at covering up their misdeeds

You've gotta be shitting us. There's no way you could actually believe something like that.

[kalm]

Aren't you just a little bit skeptical of these videos?

Why should I be? They've posted the entire videos and they seem as bad as the portions they have circulated.

If you don't think PP is illegally selling fetal tissue, and trying to make it look like it is just recovering "costs," you are being very naive.

Ok, post a breakdown of what was said from a reputable source.

[89Hen]

Why should I be? They've posted the entire videos and they seem as bad as the portions they have circulated.

If you don't think PP is illegally selling fetal tissue, and trying to make it look like it is just recovering "costs," you are being very naive.

Ok, post a breakdown of what was said from a reputable source.

Yeah, like Rolling Stone.

[JoltinJoe]

Others have just proven more adept at covering up their misdeeds

You've gotta be shitting us. There's no way you could actually believe something like that.

The rate of abuse by teachers is nearly twice as likely as by a Catholic priest, and the number school teachers in the US vastly exceed the number of priests.

Now discuss what you know about sex abuse cases in the schools in the 1960s through 2002.

[JoltinJoe]

Why should I be? They've posted the entire videos and they seem as bad as the portions they have circulated.

If you don't think PP is illegally selling fetal tissue, and trying to make it look like it is just recovering "costs," you are being very naive.

Ok, post a breakdown of what was said from a reputable source.

Just watch the entire videos. Or do you need Matt Taibbi to do that for you too?

[JoltinJoe]

Two courts have now issued constitutionally dubious prior restraints of the group's free speech rights and enjoined, at least temporarily, additional video releases.

In the leading case concerning prior restraints, the Supreme Court held that the government could not prohibit the New York Times and the Washington Post from publishing the Pentagon Papers, even though they were classified documents critical to national security.

When I was in law school, my con law professor said, "You will never, ever see a court issue a prior restraint. They are offensive to the First Amendment."

But when Planned Parenthood is involved, the rules of law and logic must bend.

I would like to provide a link from the New York Times about this dubious prior restraint, but I can't find the story in that paper. Apparently the New York Times, the beneficiary of the leading decision holding that prior restraints are nearly per se unconstitutional, cannot determine to spin this news story yet, given their own misleading reportage favoring Planned Parenthood. Irony can be a painful thing some time. Let's face it. Newspapers despise the concept of prior restraints -- but a prior restraint that aids Planned Parenthood cannot be criticized, even though it is nearly impossible to believe that this prior restraint on free expression concerning a public issue is constitutionally valid.

The Times ran a story last week that contained quotes from the first two videos and editorialized that the videos had been edited in a misleading fashion. So, based on that, I sat through the entire first two videos --nearly four hours total.

And while the quotes highlighted by the Times were certainly there -- this was not something PP could do for profit, or look to as a revenue stream -- the PP representative was saying these things in the context of how PP has to be creative on how it defines "cost." In other words, "we are limited to costs, wink, wink, nod, nod."

Why are so many in the media lying about the content of these videos??

The leader of the group said yesterday on CNN that the video PP and StemTech, one its contractors, are trying to prevent from reaching the public is the one in which a StemTech representative says that sometimes they receive fully intact fetuses from PP -- indicative that PP is performing live birth abortions in order to preserve fetal organs.

[kalm]

Ok, post a breakdown of what was said from a reputable source.

Just watch the entire videos. Or do you need Matt Taibbi to do that for you too?

Oooooohhh...a Rolling Stone and Taibbi comment in three posts!

I wasn't looking for investigative journalism pieces like Taibbi's that I use to post (which are still
Spot on and excellent reads btw, you should go educate yourself sometime), just an unbiased summary of the latest video.

I skimmed a few articles on video #3 all of which regarded the video as "heavily edited". A couple quoted the phlebotomist as though she was referencing her PP experience when it appears she was actually talking about her work for Stem Express.

Still a nasty thing, but the evidence comes from an extremely dishonest group. Thank you for confirming there's no need to watch the entire video and that you're not a trustworthy source on this topic.

[Chizzang]

I was completely unaware that people were taking the video as legit..?

WOW..!!!

That explains a lot

[kalm]

I was completely unaware that people were taking the video as legit..?

WOW..!!!

That explains a lot

Dude, I'm pretty sure Republicans are still calling for the defunding of ACORN.

[YoUDeeMan]

to allow his government and others to kill and enslave innocent people so that he can drive a car, live in a nice house...and golf (eff the environment, too ).

And he's OK with it. In fact, he, and you, and most everyone in a first world country, support lifestyles at the expense of other innocent lives.

The fact is that giving up your lifestyle so that others can live (period), or live better lives, would be waaaaaaaaay too inconvenient for you. You pride yourselves that you are getting ahead...living the good life, and making things better for your children in this dog eat dog world. 100,000s of thousand of people have died recently because we want the US of A to be the gawd damned US of A...and no sand nigg...err, nihilist is going to get in our way.

Yet you want someone else to give up their lifestyle in order to stay pregnant in order to deliver an innocent baby that they, and most of the world, don't want.

That isn't nihilism, jj, that is hypocrisy.

We've already beaten this horse Cluck. Everyone who believes murder should be a punishable offense is a hypocrite by your definition. You keep bringing it up as if it's a hole in the pro-life arguement. It's not.

Huh?

I'm not framing this issue as a hole in the pro-life argument. No, not at all.

I am bringing it up as an excellent example of hypocrisy...and it is.

Plenty of people will wail about the loss of a fetus' life...while happily living a lifestyle that causes the deaths of thousands of innocent people.

That is a simple, and very true, statement.

I'm OK with that. I love my lifestyle and don't care if others are dying for it. That's part of (oddly enough) life. Lions and gazelles.

You are OK with that hypocrisy, too. You help kill thousands of people each year so that you can give yourself and your family a better life. If the baby killed is in the womb of some mother in Libya...meh, we need that oil so that we can drive to the beach.

You and I are not going to change the way we live so that fetus, and many others, can be saved.

Nothing wrong with that...just recognize the reality of what you are saying...and doing. Saying a chick should not be able to kill her fetus, while saying that we won't change our lifestyles so that some third world chick, and her fetus, can live, is funny from a, "pro-life" standpoint.

[JoltinJoe]

I was completely unaware

Truer words were never spoken.

[JoltinJoe]

Still a nasty thing, but the evidence comes from an extremely dishonest group. Thank you for confirming there's no need to watch the entire video and that you're not a trustworthy source on this topic.

I told you to go watch the entire videos for yourself. This "dishonest" group has put the whole video out there on the web.

I don't have to do your work for you. I know you're not into doing the work for yourself. That's why you wound up a directional university for your College Equivalency Degree.

[Skjellyfetti]

"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is."

---- Sister Joan D. Chittister, O.S.B

[kalm]

Still a nasty thing, but the evidence comes from an extremely dishonest group. Thank you for confirming there's no need to watch the entire video and that you're not a trustworthy source on this topic.

I told you to go watch the entire videos for yourself. This "dishonest" group has put the whole video out there on the web.

I don't have to do your work for you. I know you're not into doing the work for yourself. That's why you wound up a directional university for your College Equivalency Degree.

So you have nothing then...

Gosh Joe, I assume you are a smart individual and it always saddens me when you go the directional school route. I say always because this isn't the first time you've gone there when challenged on a legitimate point.

I truly hope you're just joking here. Not for my sake, but for yours.

You see, in my world and for that matter the Internet, no one really gives a shit where you went to school. You are judged by your actions and your words.

I asked you an honest question and followed up with an honest request. You've chosen to run away from both.

EWU 35 FU 0.