Minimum Wage Seattle...

[CAA Flagship]

Who was it that said :" "Our people are our greatest resource."?

Used to hear it from HR all the time.

I don't know, but they weren't talking about the people in HR.

[kalm]

Any aggressively new idea like this IS AN INVESTMENT
and also with new ideas comes some broken eggs and hard feelings

Isn't it the Republican work motto "if you don't like it then leave..."
well here you go - this is a great example in play - some folks didn't like and and left

The company invested in itself by investing in its employees
(and John and Rush Limbaugh are stunned) Go figure

Its the same as the Wal-Mart vs. Costco business strategy
They are both successful / They are both completely different ideologically speaking

There are many good things about the "plan". 1st, you can higher the best of the best. You will be flooded with applications and you will be hiring high quality applicants. 2nd, you can demand excellence from your employees. Anheuser-Busch, at least until the buyout by Inbev, compensated it's union employees in the top 5% of all union jobs in America. Complete morats were being compensated around $48/hour (late 90's figure) (factoring in all benefits, but not overtime), and they knew they could not make that amount anywhere else. The smarter morats made sure they worked hard and did not fuck up.

The problem is that he just gave huge raises to people he hired for far less, meaning that they are not likely the "best of the best". And he clearly pissed off people that are upset that these people are making nearly as much money as they are without having put in the effort or having the responsibility that they do.
You can't give the student that busts their ass and "A" and every other student a "B", regardless of how little they studied or how bad they performed on the tests.

* hire

* an

[CAA Flagship]

There are many good things about the "plan". 1st, you can higher the best of the best. You will be flooded with applications and you will be hiring high quality applicants. 2nd, you can demand excellence from your employees. Anheuser-Busch, at least until the buyout by Inbev, compensated it's union employees in the top 5% of all union jobs in America. Complete morats were being compensated around $48/hour (late 90's figure) (factoring in all benefits, but not overtime), and they knew they could not make that amount anywhere else. The smarter morats made sure they worked hard and did not fuck up.

The problem is that he just gave huge raises to people he hired for far less, meaning that they are not likely the "best of the best". And he clearly pissed off people that are upset that these people are making nearly as much money as they are without having put in the effort or having the responsibility that they do.
You can't give the student that busts their ass and "A" and every other student a "B", regardless of how little they studied or how bad they performed on the tests.

* hire

* an

I forgot to turn on the "kalm-correct" on my fingers.

[Ibanez]

Well, that didn't take long.

Just three months ago, Dan Price was a progressive hero. To much fanfare, Price, CEO of Seattle-based Gravity Payments, announced he was raising the minimum salary for employees of his company to $70,000, and taking a $930,000 pay cut himself to help pay for his new minimum wage. Three months later, the experiment does not go well.

Price has had to rent out his own house to help cover his bills. In addition, the New York Times reports Gravity lost two of its most valuable employees whose departure was “spurred in part by their view that it was unfair to double the pay of some new hires while the longest-serving staff members got small or no raises.”

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/02/ceo-w ... ard-times/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But the most damaging blow to the company is internal, as some of the most valuable employees at Gravity Payments have started to leave the company. The Times reported that two employees have left directly because of the policy. One told the paper she was initially excited about the new policy, but as she thought about the details she began to get dismayed. “He gave raises to people who have the least skills and are the least equipped to do the job, and the ones who were taking on the most didn’t get much of a bump.”

She said she presented the issue to Price along with an alternative way to raise salaries, but was met with an accusation of selfishness. So she decided to quit. Another employee, on the lower-end of the former pay range, also decided to quit after thinking through the policy. “Now the people who were just clocking in and out were making the same as me,” he told the Times. “It shackles high performers to less motivated team members.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidburkus ... -payments/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, he cut his income but not his expenses? Idiot.

[Chizzang]

So, he cut his income but not his expenses? Idiot.

When its all said and done - and his company is successful
What story will those who wished him to fail use then..?

Ultimately it comes down to this:
If there were only two companies in the world - Wal-Mart & Costco

1) Which one would you want your 16 yr old child to go to work for
2) Which one would you want your graduate student to go to work for
3) Which one would you want to retire from...
4) What legacy would you want to leave behind

[CAA Flagship]

So, he cut his income but not his expenses? Idiot.

When its all said and done - and his company is successful
What story will those who wished him to fail use then..?

Ultimately it comes down to this:
If there were only two companies in the world - Wal-Mart & Costco

1) Which one would you want your 16 yr old child to go to work for
2) Which one would you want your graduate student to go to work for
3) Which one would you want to retire from...
4) What legacy would you want to leave behind

This isn't about Walmart or Costco. This isn't about minimum wage being $10/hour or $15/hour.
This is about giving a 21 year old $35/hour for a job that might normally pay $10-15/hour, while paying your more responsible employees $40/hour.

[houndawg]

When its all said and done - and his company is successful
What story will those who wished him to fail use then..?

Ultimately it comes down to this:
If there were only two companies in the world - Wal-Mart & Costco

1) Which one would you want your 16 yr old child to go to work for
2) Which one would you want your graduate student to go to work for
3) Which one would you want to retire from...
4) What legacy would you want to leave behind

This isn't about Walmart or Costco. This isn't about minimum wage being $10/hour or $15/hour.
This is about giving a 21 year old $35/hour for a job that might normally pay $10-15/hour, while paying your more responsible employees $40/hour.

So make more bonus opportunity available for the star employees. $35/hr is what tradesmen are charging here so it doesn't seem that far out.

[CAA Flagship]

This isn't about Walmart or Costco. This isn't about minimum wage being $10/hour or $15/hour.
This is about giving a 21 year old $35/hour for a job that might normally pay $10-15/hour, while paying your more responsible employees $40/hour.

So make more bonus opportunity available for the star employees. $35/hr is what tradesmen are charging here so it doesn't seem that far out.

Sure, if there is money left over at the end of the year, reward the employees with bonuses. I'm all for it.
Bonuses give employees instant gratification for work performed over the last year. Stock options are future gratification that may or may not incentivize employees for future work and success of the company. I like the stock options better for a business model but I'm OK with bonuses. Certainly better than the shitstorm he created with way overpaying salaries.

[CID1990]

So, he cut his income but not his expenses? Idiot.

When its all said and done - and his company is successful
What story will those who wished him to fail use then..?

Ultimately it comes down to this:
If there were only two companies in the world - Wal-Mart & Costco

1) Which one would you want your 16 yr old child to go to work for
2) Which one would you want your graduate student to go to work for
3) Which one would you want to retire from...
4) What legacy would you want to leave behind

I actually hope the dude is successful - I love seeing old paradigms broken

but like the old man said - "we'll see"

ultimately the goal of this enterprise - as with all other capitalistic ventures - is to make money - and the free market - not goodwill- will determine the company's fate

[Chizzang]

So make more bonus opportunity available for the star employees. $35/hr is what tradesmen are charging here so it doesn't seem that far out.

Sure, if there is money left over at the end of the year, reward the employees with bonuses. I'm all for it.
Bonuses give employees instant gratification for work performed over the last year. Stock options are future gratification that may or may not incentivize employees for future work and success of the company. I like the stock options better for a business model but I'm OK with bonuses. Certainly better than the shitstorm he created with way overpaying salaries.

Your business world view is in a vacuum...
and you are misrepresenting the facts - or couldn't grasp them - not sure which

The schedule for employees to get to $35 hr. was over two years
nobody was being hired at $35
and during that period if you were not "worth $35" you would be terminated

See how that works..?
He's got thousands to choose from and 24 months to decide
almost NOTHING you posted is applicable to this situation Mr. Business Model in a Vacuum

random people off the street getting $35 an hour right off the bat... DUH that won't work

Sometimes I think you play dumb... (god I hope)

[CAA Flagship]

Sure, if there is money left over at the end of the year, reward the employees with bonuses. I'm all for it.
Bonuses give employees instant gratification for work performed over the last year. Stock options are future gratification that may or may not incentivize employees for future work and success of the company. I like the stock options better for a business model but I'm OK with bonuses. Certainly better than the shitstorm he created with way overpaying salaries.

Your business world view is in a vacuum...
and you are misrepresenting the facts - or couldn't grasp them - not sure which

The schedule for employees to get to $35 hr. was over two years
nobody was being hired at $35
and during that period if you were not "worth $35" you would be terminated

See how that works..?
He's got thousands to choose from and 24 months to decide
almost NOTHING you posted is applicable to this situation Mr. Business Model in a Vacuum

random people off the street getting $35 an hour right off the bat... DUH that won't work

Sometimes I think you play dumb... (god I hope)

Where did I say he was paying someone $35/hour NOW? We are talking about the plan.
Focus Chizzy. In two years, he will be hiring a 21 year old to answer the phone for $35/hour. THAT is the plan. What don't you understand. Sure the raise is getting phased in. But right now everyone is making at least $25/hour before the next two bumps.

[Chizzang]

Your business world view is in a vacuum...
and you are misrepresenting the facts - or couldn't grasp them - not sure which

The schedule for employees to get to $35 hr. was over two years
nobody was being hired at $35
and during that period if you were not "worth $35" you would be terminated

See how that works..?
He's got thousands to choose from and 24 months to decide
almost NOTHING you posted is applicable to this situation Mr. Business Model in a Vacuum

random people off the street getting $35 an hour right off the bat... DUH that won't work

Sometimes I think you play dumb... (god I hope)

Where did I say he was paying someone $35/hour NOW? We are talking about the plan.
Focus Chizzy. In two years, he will be hiring a 21 year old to answer the phone for $35/hour. THAT is the plan. What don't you understand. Sure the raise is getting phased in. But right now everyone is making at least $25/hour before the next two bumps.

I love arguing with you so much..!!!



No...
The employee he hired 4 months ago will be answering the phone in two years for $35 hr.

[CAA Flagship]

Where did I say he was paying someone $35/hour NOW? We are talking about the plan.
Focus Chizzy. In two years, he will be hiring a 21 year old to answer the phone for $35/hour. THAT is the plan. What don't you understand. Sure the raise is getting phased in. But right now everyone is making at least $25/hour before the next two bumps.

I love arguing with you so much..!!!



No...
The employee he hired 4 months ago will be answering the phone in two years for $35 hr.

You're welcome.

[houndawg]

Your business world view is in a vacuum...
and you are misrepresenting the facts - or couldn't grasp them - not sure which

The schedule for employees to get to $35 hr. was over two years
nobody was being hired at $35
and during that period if you were not "worth $35" you would be terminated

See how that works..?
He's got thousands to choose from and 24 months to decide
almost NOTHING you posted is applicable to this situation Mr. Business Model in a Vacuum

random people off the street getting $35 an hour right off the bat... DUH that won't work

Sometimes I think you play dumb... (god I hope)

Where did I say he was paying someone $35/hour NOW? We are talking about the plan.
Focus Chizzy. In two years, he will be hiring a 21 year old to answer the phone for $35/hour. THAT is the plan. What don't you understand. Sure the raise is getting phased in. But right now everyone is making at least $25/hour before the next two bumps.

It won't be $35/hr. because he'll be getting way more than 40 hrs/wk from them.

[CAA Flagship]

Where did I say he was paying someone $35/hour NOW? We are talking about the plan.
Focus Chizzy. In two years, he will be hiring a 21 year old to answer the phone for $35/hour. THAT is the plan. What don't you understand. Sure the raise is getting phased in. But right now everyone is making at least $25/hour before the next two bumps.

It won't be $35/hr. because he'll be getting way more than 40 hrs/wk from them.

SMFH
Keep worshiping this fool.

[houndawg]

It won't be $35/hr. because he'll be getting way more than 40 hrs/wk from them.

SMFH
Keep worshiping this fool.

How does pointing out a simple fact constitute worship?

The deal is done, now he has to make it work. So obviously he's going to raise the hours since he can't lower the pay. They're on salary, he owns them.

[tribe_pride]

SMFH
Keep worshiping this fool.

How does pointing out a simple fact constitute worship?

The deal is done, now he has to make it work. So obviously he's going to raise the hours since he can't lower the pay. They're on salary, he owns them.

Wrong. Not everyone will be on salary (even if employer thinks this is true) especially not those just answering phones or performing menial jobs. There are rules for who is allowed to be exempt from overtime wages. Default is anyone who works 40 hours or more must be paid time and a half for OT. Exempted are Outside Sales employees, Computer employees (meaning IT guys), Professional Employees, Executive Employees, and Administrative Employees. May be others but those are the standard group.

To be eligible for the administrative exemption (because the other parts won't be close to relevant for the others), you need 3 things:
- Paid at least $455 per week (President is looking to raise this significantly through regulations)
- Primary duty must be the performance of office or non-manual work directly related to the management or general business operations of the employer or the employer’s customers
- primary duty includes the exercise of discretion and independent judgment with respect to matters of significance

Anyone performing manual work is not going to be eligible for this exemption and the 3rd bullet is the toughest to get and many will not be able to reach that one because "discretion and independent judgment" is not with respect to minor work. Therefore, many will be eligible for time and a half if they work more than 40 hours per week.

[houndawg]

How does pointing out a simple fact constitute worship?

The deal is done, now he has to make it work. So obviously he's going to raise the hours since he can't lower the pay. They're on salary, he owns them.

Wrong. Not everyone will be on salary (even if employer thinks this is true) especially not those just answering phones or performing menial jobs. There are rules for who is allowed to be exempt from overtime wages. Default is anyone who works 40 hours or more must be paid time and a half for OT. Exempted are Outside Sales employees, Computer employees (meaning IT guys), Professional Employees, Executive Employees, and Administrative Employees. May be others but those are the standard group.

To be eligible for the administrative exemption (because the other parts won't be close to relevant for the others), you need 3 things:
- Paid at least $455 per week (President is looking to raise this significantly through regulations)
- Primary duty must be the performance of office or non-manual work directly related to the management or general business operations of the employer or the employer’s customers
- primary duty includes the exercise of discretion and independent judgment with respect to matters of significance

Anyone performing manual work is not going to be eligible for this exemption and the 3rd bullet is the toughest to get and many will not be able to reach that one because "discretion and independent judgment" is not with respect to minor work. Therefore, many will be eligible for time and a half if they work more than 40 hours per week.

How long do you give them? Six months? A year?

[tribe_pride]

Wrong. Not everyone will be on salary (even if employer thinks this is true) especially not those just answering phones or performing menial jobs. There are rules for who is allowed to be exempt from overtime wages. Default is anyone who works 40 hours or more must be paid time and a half for OT. Exempted are Outside Sales employees, Computer employees (meaning IT guys), Professional Employees, Executive Employees, and Administrative Employees. May be others but those are the standard group.

To be eligible for the administrative exemption (because the other parts won't be close to relevant for the others), you need 3 things:
- Paid at least $455 per week (President is looking to raise this significantly through regulations)
- Primary duty must be the performance of office or non-manual work directly related to the management or general business operations of the employer or the employer’s customers
- primary duty includes the exercise of discretion and independent judgment with respect to matters of significance

Anyone performing manual work is not going to be eligible for this exemption and the 3rd bullet is the toughest to get and many will not be able to reach that one because "discretion and independent judgment" is not with respect to minor work. Therefore, many will be eligible for time and a half if they work more than 40 hours per week.

How long do you give them? Six months? A year?

Give who and to do what?

I was only talking about whether or not the employer was required to pay time and a half for OT. Not addressing anything else.

[houndawg]

How long do you give them? Six months? A year?

Give who and to do what?

I was only talking about whether or not the employer was required to pay time and a half for OT. Not addressing anything else.

Sorry. Wrong guy. The bidniz types here seem to think that this move was a fatal error so I was asking how long until the company is insolvent.

[houndawg]

Who was it that said :" "Our people are our greatest resource."?

Used to hear it from HR all the time.

I don't know, but they weren't talking about the people in HR.

Yeah, HR seems to attract a different breed.

[tribe_pride]

Give who and to do what?

I was only talking about whether or not the employer was required to pay time and a half for OT. Not addressing anything else.

Sorry. Wrong guy. The bidniz types here seem to think that this move was a fatal error so I was asking how long until the company is insolvent.

It may be a fatal error but without being able to see his books (private company), nobody can predict how long it would take. Note the raise is to $50,000 now, $60,000 in December 2016 and $70,000 in December 2017.

Personally it has proven to be damaging to him so far. He reduced his own salary from $1 Million to $70,000. With only 120 employees or so, his $930,000 decrease in salary may have brought everyone up to or close to $50,000 by now but wait until the company needs to add an additional $10,000 per employee and another $10,000 on top of that in 2017 which is $2,000,000/year plus employer part of taxes over what it is paying now assuming that he needs to raise 100 employees salaries up to $70,000.

In addition, because of his personal decrease in salary, he has already had to rent out his house because he can't afford to live in a place that a $1 million salary could pay for. According to articles, the decision is also pissing off employees and customers with all of this in place so while he may have tried to do this for good reasons, it is now getting negative publicity and is effecting him negatively.

[CAA Flagship]

Give who and to do what?

I was only talking about whether or not the employer was required to pay time and a half for OT. Not addressing anything else.

Sorry. Wrong guy. The bidniz types here seem to think that this move was a fatal error so I was asking how long until the company is insolvent.

According to the NYT article, the $70k/year is not based on the business model of Gravity Payments.

When Mr. Price chose $70,000 as the eventual salary floor, he was influenced by research showing that this annual income could make an enormous difference in someone’s emotional well-being by easing nagging financial stress.

Well no shit.

So the company was doing well over the years. And he paid himself an extreme amount. His guilt has caused him to perform a calculation based on no hiccups in cashflow. Then the hiccup came in a lawsuit by his brother. In addition, a turnover of clients that will cause a bit of a short term cashflow problem. Now he is renting out his home to help pay the promise.

Maybe this will all work out. I don't know, but if not, the "victims" are people like this that have immediately altered their life based on the expectations of the higher salaries.

For now, at least, Mr. Price has undoubtedly made an immediate difference in the lives of many of his employees. José Garcia, 30, who supervises an equipment team, was able to afford to move into the city and replace the worn tires on his car. Ms. Ortiz, who was briefly homeless as a child, can now visit her family in Burlington, Vt. Cody Boorman, 22, who handles operations out of his eastern Washington home, said he and his wife finally felt financially secure enough to start a family.
"To hear those numbers is just, 'Wow,'" said Alyssa O'Neal, who will more than double her salary. She came to Gravity from a career in the Army and is already making plans for her young family. "House, absolutely. I have this goal of being a 21-year-old homeowner and I'm going to reach that now and I'm stoked," she said.

[CAA Flagship]

I don't know, but they weren't talking about the people in HR.

Yeah, HR seems to attract a different breed.

They are usually the dumbest people in the room.

[tribe_pride]

Yeah, HR seems to attract a different breed.

They are usually the dumbest people in the room.

A good HR person, and I have worked with a good number of them, can help out both employees and employers well. I have worked with a bunch who are so good that employees will come into them and spill their personal lives to them (many times to the hatred of the HR person) because the HR person has helped them a bunch as an employee.

A bad HR person, like those who think they should only protect management and not the welfare of the company as a whole, is unfortunately what many think the HR person's duty is and hurts the company as a whole.