Primate Fossil Could Be Key Link in Evolution

[Mountaineer]

Don't, it's bullshit.

Aye, I started reading before realizing it sounded familiar. I believe SG posted this over at AGS once. A quick search:

Center for Science and Culture

A Discovery Institute organization, established in 1996 to promote intelligent design (ID). Formerly called the Center for Renewal of Science and Culture (CSRC). Authored the infamous "Wedge Document".

According to the Wedge Document, the strategy is designed to defeat “Darwinism” and to promote an idea of science “consonant with Christian and theistic convictions.” The ultimate goal of the Wedge strategy is to “renew” American culture by shaping public policy to reflect conservative Christian values.

The group's "de facto leader" is Phillip Johnson.

The CRSC’s early website announced that new developments in the sciences were “raising serious doubts about scientific materialism and re-opening the case for the supernatural.” This was a clear signal to potential supporters that the CRSC was open for business as a religious organization dedicated to opposing evolution.

[D1B]

My point in all this is still that same. The science is way over all our heads for any sort of meaningful discussion.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB ... coMainPage

If you can understand the article, the author lays down the astronomical odds of life starting as primordial ooze. I had a tough time following it and I am positive the people that truly have any decent points understand this stuff like the back of their hands.

The astronomical odds is something I LOVE when people bring up. A little statistics fun really. I believe the universe is about as infinite as something can get, and in infinity, astronomical happens 3 times a week. Sorry, the only reason that concept is so hard to grasp for humans is because it lends the possibility that there are more of us out there. Fact is, and I've said it before, I'll put my money on there being an IDENTICAL earth before I put my money on God.

That and here's his source:

The Center for Science and Culture (CSC), formerly known as the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture (CRSC), is part of the Discovery Institute, a conservative Christian think tank[1] in the United States. The CSC lobbies for the inclusion of creationism in the form of intelligent design (ID) in public school science curricula as an explanation for the origins of life and the universe while casting doubt on the theory of evolution by portraying it as a "theory in crisis."[2]

These positions have been rejected by the wider scientific community, which identifies intelligent design as pseudoscientific neo-creationism and whereas the theory of evolution is overwhelmingly accepted as a matter of scientific consensus.[3]

The Center for Science and Culture serves as the hub of the intelligent design movement. Nearly all of the luminaries of intelligent design are either CSC advisors, officers, or fellows. Stephen C. Meyer, a fellow of the Discovery Institute and founder of the CSC, serves as Senior Fellow and Vice President, and Phillip E. Johnson is the Program Advisor. Johnson is commonly presented as the movement's "father" and architect of the center's Wedge strategy and "Teach the Controversy" campaign, as well as the Santorum Amendment.

[D1B]

Don't, it's bullshit.

Aye, I started reading before realizing it sounded familiar. I believe SG posted this over at AGS once. A quick search:

Center for Science and Culture

A Discovery Institute organization, established in 1996 to promote intelligent design (ID). Formerly called the Center for Renewal of Science and Culture (CSRC). Authored the infamous "Wedge Document".

According to the Wedge Document, the strategy is designed to defeat “Darwinism” and to promote an idea of science “consonant with Christian and theistic convictions.” The ultimate goal of the Wedge strategy is to “renew” American culture by shaping public policy to reflect conservative Christian values.

The group's "de facto leader" is Phillip Johnson.

The CRSC’s early website announced that new developments in the sciences were “raising serious doubts about scientific materialism and re-opening the case for the supernatural.” This was a clear signal to potential supporters that the CRSC was open for business as a religious organization dedicated to opposing evolution.

I think SG is fucking with us.

[SeattleGriz]

The problem D1B, is that I know too much. I have a degree in Microbiology. A large part in why I am not big on evolution is that many of my professors had to gloss over any serious questions about evolution and asked us to just believe...with faith that evolution was airtight.

Nothing is airtight SG. Evolution is sound. We can count on it. We can observe it.

What are you "not big on" about evolution?

To be frank, it just doesn't appear to be very solid to me.

A perfect example is the Mitochondrial Eve and Y chromosomal Adam. Geneticists worked the mutations in DNA backwards until they figured out when the first man and woman was around and the results differ by about 110,000 years.

This was considered solid work until the numbers didn't match, then it was tossed aside.

Also, not to bore, but almost every genetics equation we used in college had assumptions. Like, the population must remain isolated, no intermixing of species, etc. All happenings you knew could never happen in the wild.

Why are all of our amino acids in our body the left handed type?

Onto a empirical observation:

Why have we never seen a "crossover" species? If we did evolve from this little guy, where are all the fossil records showing the transition? Out of all the fossils found, how many are truly missing links?

I don't hate evolution as DNA is just way too tricky to count it out, but there are just too many holes.

[wideright82]

I'll give it a chance anyway, i love to know both sides. Maybe he'll convert me.

[D1B]

Nothing is airtight SG. Evolution is sound. We can count on it. We can observe it.

What are you "not big on" about evolution?

To be frank, it just doesn't appear to be very solid to me.

A perfect example is the Mitochondrial Eve and Y chromosomal Adam. Geneticists worked the mutations in DNA backwards until they figured out when the first man and woman was around and the results differ by about 110,000 years.

This was considered solid work until the numbers didn't match, then it was tossed aside.

Also, not to bore, but almost every genetics equation we used in college had assumptions. Like, the population must remain isolated, no intermixing of species, etc. All happenings you knew could never happen in the wild.

Why are all of our amino acids in our body the left handed type?

Onto a empirical observation:

Why have we never seen a "crossover" species? If we did evolve from this little guy, where are all the fossil records showing the transition? Out of all the fossils found, how many are truly missing links?

I don't hate evolution as DNA is just way too tricky to count it out, but there are just too many holes.

Fuck off whack job. Thank god you aint a pilot or doctor.

[SeattleGriz]

Aye, I started reading before realizing it sounded familiar. I believe SG posted this over at AGS once. A quick search:

I think SG is **** with us.

I did post it over on AGS and got the same response. Nobody had the education to refute the claim. Now if JMU DJ was here, he could honestly tell us if the guy is full of it or not because JMU DJ is pretty far along in his Biochemistry teachings. Much more "fresh" than my 16 year old degree.

My belief is it doesn't matter who says it, if the science is solid.

[clenz]

I'm on Celexa right now. I have a long family history of depression, so it is genetic for me. The Dr. said that Celexa should do the trick. I had been active enough through HS to keep it from getting bad, but since I stopped sports my GPA has hit the shitter and I stopped going to classes for a month or two on end, and I knew that needed to stop. So I started counseling and meds. I have completely revamped my faith and beliefs since I started taking them 3 weeks ago.


Only downside is I get the munchies like a fucking stoner now. Not good considering I wanted to lose weight.

Clenz, sorry to hear bout your depression. I'll be more careful. Don't get rattled over anything I say. I'm a lonely, pathetic has-been with a massive drug problem, 167 starving cats and the authorities closing in on me. The only things I have in my apt., beside my cats, is a computer and a bucket.

You don't have to be careful or sorry. I was a douchebag and didn't get it taken care of sooner. I am well on my way to being able to function. Hopefully I can pull by B's up to A's next year. I'm just hopeful due to the fact I can skip classes for a month and pull B's. I am the same person I was a year ago, except more logical in my thinking, and much less hypersensitive to everything. I couldn't have had this conversation a month ago. It would have looked like one of Cap'n's and D1's conversations with Z and T.

[wideright82]

Nothing is airtight SG. Evolution is sound. We can count on it. We can observe it.

What are you "not big on" about evolution?

To be frank, it just doesn't appear to be very solid to me.

A perfect example is the Mitochondrial Eve and Y chromosomal Adam. Geneticists worked the mutations in DNA backwards until they figured out when the first man and woman was around and the results differ by about 110,000 years.

This was considered solid work until the numbers didn't match, then it was tossed aside.

Also, not to bore, but almost every genetics equation we used in college had assumptions. Like, the population must remain isolated, no intermixing of species, etc. All happenings you knew could never happen in the wild.

Why are all of our amino acids in our body the left handed type?

Onto a empirical observation:

Why have we never seen a "crossover" species? If we did evolve from this little guy, where are all the fossil records showing the transition? Out of all the fossils found, how many are truly missing links?

I don't hate evolution as DNA is just way too tricky to count it out, but there are just too many holes.

Aliens are the missing link in humans, duh



http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread5381/pg1

http://www.netscientia.com/god_spell.html




makes perfect sense. And you can relate all virgin births in religion to a representation of our alien encounter. Not to mention the lack of total use of our brain, and the missing links. Sources = fun

[SeattleGriz]

My point in all this is still that same. The science is way over all our heads for any sort of meaningful discussion.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB ... coMainPage

If you can understand the article, the author lays down the astronomical odds of life starting as primordial ooze. I had a tough time following it and I am positive the people that truly have any decent points understand this stuff like the back of their hands.

Bullshit SG. Your source is a whack job creationist org.

From your source:

supports research by scientists and other scholars challenging various aspects of neo-Darwinian theory;
supports research by scientists and other scholars developing the scientific theory known as intelligent design;
supports research by scientists and scholars in the social sciences and humanities exploring the impact of scientific materialism on culture.
encourages schools to improve science education by teaching students more fully about the theory of evolution, including the theory's scientific weaknesses as well is its strengths.

That's a straw man argument.

[wideright82]

I think SG is **** with us.

I did post it over on AGS and got the same response. Nobody had the education to refute the claim. Now if JMU DJ was here, he could honestly tell us if the guy is full of it or not because JMU DJ is pretty far along in his Biochemistry teachings. Much more "fresh" than my 16 year old degree.

My belief is it doesn't matter who says it, if the science is solid.

I was just thinking we could use some help from the Jew. Someone throw some nickels on the ground so he'll come hang out

[wideright82]

Bullshit SG. Your source is a whack job creationist org.

From your source:

supports research by scientists and other scholars challenging various aspects of neo-Darwinian theory;
supports research by scientists and other scholars developing the scientific theory known as intelligent design;
supports research by scientists and scholars in the social sciences and humanities exploring the impact of scientific materialism on culture.
encourages schools to improve science education by teaching students more fully about the theory of evolution, including the theory's scientific weaknesses as well is its strengths.

That's a straw man argument.

actually that's an ad hominem, I believe

[SeattleGriz]

I did post it over on AGS and got the same response. Nobody had the education to refute the claim. Now if JMU DJ was here, he could honestly tell us if the guy is full of it or not because JMU DJ is pretty far along in his Biochemistry teachings. Much more "fresh" than my 16 year old degree.

My belief is it doesn't matter who says it, if the science is solid.

I was just thinking we could use some help from the Jew. Someone throw some nickels on the ground so he'll come hang out

I heard he invented a new car, Stops on a dime, then it picks it up!!!

[Mountaineer]

I did post it over on AGS and got the same response. Nobody had the education to refute the claim.

Well, sure. We're just a bunch of dummies around here. However, I haven't actually seen you provide your own analysis on the article. Posting it again is fantastic and all, but how about breaking it down into something an uneducated person can understand?

[D1B]

Bullshit SG. Your source is a whack job creationist org.

From your source:

supports research by scientists and other scholars challenging various aspects of neo-Darwinian theory;
supports research by scientists and other scholars developing the scientific theory known as intelligent design;
supports research by scientists and scholars in the social sciences and humanities exploring the impact of scientific materialism on culture.
encourages schools to improve science education by teaching students more fully about the theory of evolution, including the theory's scientific weaknesses as well is its strengths.

That's a straw man argument.

[SeattleGriz]

I did post it over on AGS and got the same response. Nobody had the education to refute the claim.

Well, sure. We're just a bunch of dummies around here. However, I haven't actually seen you provide your own analysis on the article. Posting it again is fantastic and all, but how about breaking it down into something an uneducated person can understand?

That was the whole point of the article - to show how much deeper the conversation truly goes. We are talking generalities, when the real discussion happens at that level and above. I only understood about 70% of the article, but it was enough to get the whole picture.

But, to try and explain the article, the author goes through all the chemical reactions that would be required for life to start up as just simple compounds joining in the primordial soup and shows just how astronomically slim the chance is that life started on it own without any outside help.

[SeattleGriz]

That's a straw man argument.

actually that's an ad hominem, I believe

Shit, I was thinking ad hominem, but put straw man.

[D1B]

Clenz, sorry to hear bout your depression. I'll be more careful. Don't get rattled over anything I say. I'm a lonely, pathetic has-been with a massive drug problem, 167 starving cats and the authorities closing in on me. The only things I have in my apt., beside my cats, is a computer and a bucket.

You don't have to be careful or sorry. I was a douchebag and didn't get it taken care of sooner. I am well on my way to being able to function. Hopefully I can pull by B's up to A's next year. I'm just hopeful due to the fact I can skip classes for a month and pull B's. I am the same person I was a year ago, except more logical in my thinking, and much less hypersensitive to everything. I couldn't have had this conversation a month ago. It would have looked like one of Cap'n's and D1's conversations with Z and T.

We are pricks aint we? You love us though,..,.

[D1B]

Well, sure. We're just a bunch of dummies around here. However, I haven't actually seen you provide your own analysis on the article. Posting it again is fantastic and all, but how about breaking it down into something an uneducated person can understand?

That was the whole point of the article - to show how much deeper the conversation truly goes. We are talking generalities, when the real discussion happens at that level and above. I only understood about 70% of the article, but it was enough to get the whole picture.

But, to try and explain the article, the author goes through all the chemical reactions that would be required for life to start up as just simple compounds joining in the primordial soup and shows just how astronomically slim the chance is that life started on it own without any outside help.

This is same line of argument that Joltin Joe uses when you back him into a corner with the dogma bullshit - he retreats to murky, bullshit theology and claims only the best minds of the world can understand it. He's right, but it's still christian bullshit, just very complex and convoluted christian bullshit.

[D1B]

actually that's an ad hominem, I believe

Shit, I was thinking ad hominem, but put straw man.

SG, so what do you do? What do you do with your Microbiology degree?

[SeattleGriz]

****, I was thinking ad hominem, but put straw man.

SG, so what do you do? What do you do with your Microbiology degree?

I won't give you the grandiose title my company gives me, so I will just say I am a service rep. My job is to get hospitals in the states of Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana to send my company the testing they cannot do in their own labs. Once we have the business, I have to keep it as well.

Not really what I wanted to do, but it did get me up here closer to all my family and of course, Montana football.

[D1B]

SG, so what do you do? What do you do with your Microbiology degree?

I won't give you the grandiose title my company gives me, so I will just say I am a service rep. My job is to get hospitals in the states of Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana to send my company the testing they cannot do in their own labs. Once we have the business, I have to keep it as well.

Not really what I wanted to do, but it did get me up here closer to all my family and of course, Montana football.

Very cool.

[Cleets Part 2]

It's kind of a stupid comic but I giggled...

[BlueHen86]

I think the missing link that people are looking for are the people who don't believe in evolution.

[houndawg]

You got to be kidding! Weak? That Swine Flu - Yep = evolution in front of your eyes

Anyone who thinks evolution is for the birds should not be afraid of swine flu. Because if there's no such thing as evolution, then there's no such thing as a new strain of swine flu infecting people.

For the rest of the population, concern is justified.

Read more here http://www.livescience.com/health/09042 ... ution.html

SMFH at SG!

We are discussing one life form evolving into another. A virus remains a virus regardless of whether it adds DNA to its genome or not. Now if the virus grew an arm and slapped someone upside the head, then that would be something.

The last time I went to school, a virus wasn't considered a living thing.

That must have been a long time ago if you think evolution is a "weak theory".