Clinton e-mailgate

[CAA Flagship]

-Obama and Hillary don't like each other.

They finally caught up to the rest of us?

[CAA Flagship]

Burn this Witch!!!!!!!

[BDKJMU]

"U.S. judge orders discovery to go forward over Clinton’s private email system

A federal judge on Tuesday ruled that State Department officials and top aides to Hillary Clinton should be questioned under oath about whether they intentionally thwarted federal open records laws by using or allowing the use of a private email server throughout Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013......"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pu ... story.html

[CID1990]

"U.S. judge orders discovery to go forward over Clinton’s private email system

A federal judge on Tuesday ruled that State Department officials and top aides to Hillary Clinton should be questioned under oath about whether they intentionally thwarted federal open records laws by using or allowing the use of a private email server throughout Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013......"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pu ... story.html

This is ancillary to what the FBI is doing. What they would be trying to determine here is not about classified material or anything like that. Depending on your worldview, this could be much tamer or much worse - at the core it has to do with whether or not Clinton had her server set up to specifically evade transparency laws such as the FOIA. This was almost certainly the case - the only excuse offered so far by the Clinton camp was it was because she didn't know how to use Department email and this was just more convenient. That should register as very weak to even those who don't fully understand it.

[Ibanez]

"U.S. judge orders discovery to go forward over Clinton’s private email system

A federal judge on Tuesday ruled that State Department officials and top aides to Hillary Clinton should be questioned under oath about whether they intentionally thwarted federal open records laws by using or allowing the use of a private email server throughout Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013......"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pu ... story.html

This is ancillary to what the FBI is doing. What they would be trying to determine here is not about classified material or anything like that. Depending on your worldview, this could be much tamer or much worse - at the core it has to do with whether or not Clinton had her server set up to specifically evade transparency laws such as the FOIA. This was almost certainly the case - the only excuse offered so far by the Clinton camp was it was because she didn't know how to use Department email and this was just more convenient. That should register as very weak to even those who don't fully understand it.

That's such a weak excuse.



"It was far easier for me to, research and pay someone to build, install and maintain a server at my home than it was for me to leave all that technical work to the experts already in place at the State Department and just have my state.gov email added to Outlook. The company I used had everything secured in a bathroom with a bolt lock. China and Al Qaeda weren't going to be able to hack that. And again, as the Secretary of State, I never received any classified email. "

[houndawg]

It is starting to look like the White House may green light a prosecution or two.

...feel the Bern....

[CAA Flagship]

[Skjellyfetti]

[DSUrocks07]

Welp....Mr. Sullivan will be one of the ones indicted for this.

H-roid is the Teflon Donna

[CID1990]

This one *might* actually be benign. There's some State Department-speak in there (nonpaper) in dealing with talking points for public consumption (which is what this email is about).

I won't go into detail, but there are a couple scenarios where what she was telling her aide to do was something other than strip off classification labels and send in the clear.

Or, she was telling her aide to commit a felony for her convenience.

[Ibanez]

This one *might* actually be benign. There's some State Department-speak in there (nonpaper) in dealing with talking points for public consumption (which is what this email is about).

I won't go into detail, but there are a couple scenarios where what she was telling her aide to do was something other than strip off classification labels and send in the clear.

Or, she was telling her aide to commit a felony for her convenience.

It's out of context, but on the surface it's enough to trip her up for an hour.

[93henfan]

This one *might* actually be benign. There's some State Department-speak in there (nonpaper) in dealing with talking points for public consumption (which is what this email is about).

I won't go into detail, but there are a couple scenarios where what she was telling her aide to do was something other than strip off classification labels and send in the clear.

Or, she was telling her aide to commit a felony for her convenience.

It's out of context, but on the surface it's enough to trip her up for an hour.

This was disclosed a couple of months ago (I posted here) and it didn't even trip her up for an hour.

[Ibanez]

It's out of context, but on the surface it's enough to trip her up for an hour.

This was disclosed a couple of months ago (I posted here) and it didn't even trip her up for an hour.

Thanks, Scoop!

[93henfan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

Bryan Pagliano, the man who set up Clinton's email server, has been given immunity by the FBI and DOJ to cooperate with the investigation. The only two questions now are:

1. Did Hillary already give him a trunk full of cash so he feeds only the info she wants.
2. If she didn't and he spills the beans, how long before he "commits suicide" in a park in DC?

[Ibanez]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

Bryan Pagliano, the man who set up Clinton's email server, has been given immunity by the FBI and DOJ to cooperate with the investigation. The only two questions now are:

1. Did Hillary already give him a trunk full of cash so he feeds only the info she wants.
2. If she didn't and he spills the beans, how long before he "commits suicide" in a park in DC?

I'd like to see Ivy's take on this. To me, granting/accepting immunity implies you know you've done something wrong.

[93henfan]

There's an interesting bit in the article I linked about how the Petraeus case was pleaded down from three felonies to a misdemeanor and how that pretty much sets the bar very, very low for any serious consequences to Hillary.

[CID1990]

There's an interesting bit in the article I linked about how the Petraeus case was pleaded down from three felonies to a misdemeanor and how that pretty much sets the bar very, very low for any serious consequences to Hillary.

That's true about Petraeus. The FBI community was furious about his deal.

But they're going to get this whole crew for lying to Fed agents. They don't question people in these situations without already knowing most of the answers. They'll put their best interrogators on it and twist this pack of liars up like a knot.

Then they'll offer deals and Petraeus will be the precedent.

[andy7171]

How long of a jail sentence is this guy looking at. I would be willing to take a fall for a cool couple million in minimum security.

[Ibanez]

There's an interesting bit in the article I linked about how the Petraeus case was pleaded down from three felonies to a misdemeanor and how that pretty much sets the bar very, very low for any serious consequences to Hillary.

That isn't a good comparison. He gave his mistress classified information and lied to the FBI about it. Clinton's scandal is more like that of John Deutch, the CIA Director who resigned in the 1990s after it was found that he had classified information stored on his home computer.

[CID1990]

There's an interesting bit in the article I linked about how the Petraeus case was pleaded down from three felonies to a misdemeanor and how that pretty much sets the bar very, very low for any serious consequences to Hillary.

That isn't a good comparison. He gave his mistress classified information and lied to the FBI about it. Clinton's scandal is more like that of John Deutch, the CIA Director who resigned in the 1990s after it was found that he had classified information stored on his home computer.

It is- but this one adds the potential for conspiracy.

[Ibanez]

That isn't a good comparison. He gave his mistress classified information and lied to the FBI about it. Clinton's scandal is more like that of John Deutch, the CIA Director who resigned in the 1990s after it was found that he had classified information stored on his home computer.

It is- but this one adds the potential for conspiracy.

So far Clinton has had a sketchy, private server and was too dumb (or ignorant/clueless) to know that as the SoS she would received classified emails. She passed along sensitive information, but so far it seems that it's been to aides not a journalist. The fact that you have your own server when you could more easily use the email account that would be set up for you is, to me, cause for alarm.

It's not actually apples to apples. What IS apples to apples is that they both mishandled classified information, for which Clinton should be held accountable for.


In one of these threads I explained to Jon how she didn't break the law (yet) just policy.

We know there was no exact law prohibiting the use of personal email. She violated her NDA (https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUME ... 833708.pdf), specifically,
safeguard classified information whether marked or unmarked classified.
. You're the the SoS and you can't tell the difference, marked or unmarked? She possibly violated Sections 793 and 1924 of Title 18 and possibly Section 1.4(d) of Executive Order 13526.

Section 793(f) of Title 18 USC:
“Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession of … information relating to the national defense … through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed …” shall be fined.


Section 1924 of Title 18,
unauthorized removal and retention of classified material,


Section 1.4(d) of Executive Order 13526, a 2009 directive governing classification of government information. Classifiable information, according to the Executive Order, is information relating to “foreign relations or foreign activities of the United States” which “could reasonably be expected to cause identifiable or describable damage to the national security.”


Yes, Powell & Rice used personal email. As far as I know, it was occasionally at best. I couldn't care less because they aren't running for President. If they are investigated and found to have broken a law, then they should be punished. However, the difference is that Clinton's server which gave her greater control over the information and can possibly circumvent Gov't transparency laws. She doesn't get to decide what Gov't emails are and aren't important. And then she wipes it clean. Did you know that CIA John Deutch resigned for storing classified information on his home computer (plead down and pardoned by President Clinton)?

[Ibanez]

Shockingly, Jon never replied to that post.

[CID1990]

It is- but this one adds the potential for conspiracy.

So far Clinton has had a sketchy, private server and was too dumb (or ignorant/clueless) to know that as the SoS she would received classified emails. She passed along sensitive information, but so far it seems that it's been to aides not a journalist. The fact that you have your own server when you could more easily use the email account that would be set up for you is, to me, cause for alarm.

It's not actually apples to apples. What IS apples to apples is that they both mishandled classified information, for which Clinton should be held accountable for.


In one of these threads I explained to Jon how she didn't break the law (yet) just policy.

We know there was no exact law prohibiting the use of personal email. She violated her NDA (https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUME ... 833708.pdf), specifically,
safeguard classified information whether marked or unmarked classified.
. You're the the SoS and you can't tell the difference, marked or unmarked? She possibly violated Sections 793 and 1924 of Title 18 and possibly Section 1.4(d) of Executive Order 13526.

Section 793(f) of Title 18 USC:
“Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession of … information relating to the national defense … through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed …” shall be fined.


Section 1924 of Title 18,
unauthorized removal and retention of classified material,


Section 1.4(d) of Executive Order 13526, a 2009 directive governing classification of government information. Classifiable information, according to the Executive Order, is information relating to “foreign relations or foreign activities of the United States” which “could reasonably be expected to cause identifiable or describable damage to the national security.”


Yes, Powell & Rice used personal email. As far as I know, it was occasionally at best. I couldn't care less because they aren't running for President. If they are investigated and found to have broken a law, then they should be punished. However, the difference is that Clinton's server which gave her greater control over the information and can possibly circumvent Gov't transparency laws. She doesn't get to decide what Gov't emails are and aren't important. And then she wipes it clean. Did you know that CIA John Deutch resigned for storing classified information on his home computer (plead down and pardoned by President Clinton)?

That's why I said "potential"

If it was just cluelessness that doesn't play well with klams theory that she's competent

I myself like to invoke Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation being that she wanted to avoid FOIA and constitutional oversight by having her own private server (harder than simply using dos's system) - and that is most certainly a crime if Mr Pagliano divulges to him how she justified her marching orders to him

[Ibanez]

So far Clinton has had a sketchy, private server and was too dumb (or ignorant/clueless) to know that as the SoS she would received classified emails. She passed along sensitive information, but so far it seems that it's been to aides not a journalist. The fact that you have your own server when you could more easily use the email account that would be set up for you is, to me, cause for alarm.

It's not actually apples to apples. What IS apples to apples is that they both mishandled classified information, for which Clinton should be held accountable for.


In one of these threads I explained to Jon how she didn't break the law (yet) just policy.

That's why I said "potential"

If it was just cluelessness that doesn't play well with klams theory that she's competent

I myself like to invoke Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation being that she wanted to avoid FOIA and constitutional oversight by having her own private server (harder than simply using dos's system) - and that is most certainly a crime if Mr Pagliano divulges to him how she justified her marching orders to him

I agree with you 100% there was a conspiracy. The whole basis of having all the information flow through her server was to control it, and that's illegal.

I was pointing out how her case isn't the same as the General's.

[Baldy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

Bryan Pagliano, the man who set up Clinton's email server, has been given immunity by the FBI and DOJ to cooperate with the investigation. The only two questions now are:

1. Did Hillary already give him a trunk full of cash so he feeds only the info she wants.
2. If she didn't and he spills the beans, how long before he "commits suicide" in a park in DC?

What I find interesting is that this is the guy who invoked his 5th amendment rights during his testimony to the House. Something tells me that he knows where the bodies are buried concerning her email server. I have visions of the Chinese and the Russians and the Iranians etc. going in and out of that server like clowns in a car and she couldn't do anything about it yet still continued to use it without regard to national security.