Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:
Pwns wrote:
AI is one of those innovations like nuclear fusion that are always just around the corner. It's actually a very challenging thing, and a lot of what people call "AI" isn't AI.

A person has genes that have been around for millenia and some even millions of years, yet we can use computer and smart phones and things that were not around.

If you build a computer program that builds random forest decision trees it's not going to suddenly figure out how to do Bayesian classification algorithms or really anything else. These programs are basically like children doing long division but having no idea how it actually works. They blindly follow the set of instructions that is the software even if some context emerges where they make no sense or don't work. I don't see how you work around that, at least easily.

Being able to process large amounts of data very quickly is super useful, but it isn't thinking.

More than some Matrix scenario, I'm much more worried about people letting computers do their thinking for them instead of just doing calculations for them. Even a lot of scientists out there think you can get an answer from SPSS analysis and it's ironclad.
Pwns... I can appreciate the whole divinity of man thing... it dies hard

But we are just a collection of a couple billion yes-no circuits

A human brain will eventually be simulated mechanically/electroncially (if we dont wipe ourselves out first)

We already can code basic learning and adaptations into these things- it is only a matter of time until we will have machines with judgment and emotion and the minute it gets into the “internet of things” we will be fvcked sideways


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Are you using the word judgement in place of decision making?

The facet of AI that, IMO,should concern you all is the machine learning. The ML will do things it hasn't been programmed to do. Not everything that's AI will/can/should have this capability.

For instance, an AI can adapt to different situations (you see this in autonomous driving). AI, essentially, does human tasks better. But ML will actually learn, evolve and then begin to make judgement calls based off its experience and what it knows/processes. ML doesn't need as much human intervention as opposed to AI.

An AI machine can't read song lyrics and tell you if it's happy, sad or what. A ML machine can.


CID - I didn't say all that b/c I think you don't know about it. I bet you do. I'm just adding to the convo. :thumb:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

JohnStOnge wrote:The news item is unremarkable. It's that the US Army Corps of Engineers (COE) opened the Bonnet Carre Spillway to relieve high river pressure on levees from around New Orleans down. But I'm more aware of it than most because my job requires that I assess certain effects when the river is high enough to call for Spillway Operation.

And as I was looking at the Spillway operations page I was struck by something. The COE operated the Spillway 8 times during the first 77 years of its existence (1931 - 2007). The COE has now had to operate it 5 times in the past 12 years including 3 of the last 4 (2016, 2018, 2019). Three times in 4 years is a "statistically significant" departure from the previous rate. That raises the possibility that the rate increase is not chance and something may be going on.

So if something is going on, what is it? Changes in rainfall patterns associated with the dreaded specter of Climate Change? Development including increase in impervious surfaces in the watershed? A combination?

A table showing historical operations through 2018 is below. When the 2019 operation is complete the COE will add that to the list.

Image
Image
Image
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:The news item is unremarkable. It's that the US Army Corps of Engineers (COE) opened the Bonnet Carre Spillway to relieve high river pressure on levees from around New Orleans down. But I'm more aware of it than most because my job requires that I assess certain effects when the river is high enough to call for Spillway Operation.

And as I was looking at the Spillway operations page I was struck by something. The COE operated the Spillway 8 times during the first 77 years of its existence (1931 - 2007). The COE has now had to operate it 5 times in the past 12 years including 3 of the last 4 (2016, 2018, 2019). Three times in 4 years is a "statistically significant" departure from the previous rate. That raises the possibility that the rate increase is not chance and something may be going on.

So if something is going on, what is it? Changes in rainfall patterns associated with the dreaded specter of Climate Change? Development including increase in impervious surfaces in the watershed? A combination?

A table showing historical operations through 2018 is below. When the 2019 operation is complete the COE will add that to the list.

Image
Image
Image
Thanks Obama :thumb:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: Image
Image
Thanks Obama :thumb:
:lol: :lol: Sure. :suspicious: :suspicious:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Col Hogan »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote: First off stop bragging on your girlfriend... we know shes smarter than you

Second, when she shows up at your house out of breath and telling you “pack a small bag quick we’re leaving” do me a solid and send me a message
Whenever we have her friends over...
I instantly realize I'm the dumbest guy in the room

:ohno:

There's the occasional wife of one of the smart guys that I'm (possibly) smarter than
but mostly even their wives are smarter than me

:geek:

The most recent humiliation was when my GF (bless her heart she's so proud of me)
announced that I'd almost completed my Network Engineering certification
which was the followed by a series of DOCSIS 3.2 transport layer questions I couldn't answer

:ohno:

to the sound of failed game show music or "oh look my dog learned a new trick"
How many of them can load and use a weapon in a self-protection situation???

How many of them can chop down a tree and not hit the near-by house???

There are loads of questions you probably can answer that would have them stumped...

Smarts are great in what they do, where they do it...

Survival smarts impress me more...you’re not that dumb, Cleets... :kisswink:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Pwns... I can appreciate the whole divinity of man thing... it dies hard

But we are just a collection of a couple billion yes-no circuits

A human brain will eventually be simulated mechanically/electroncially (if we dont wipe ourselves out first)

We already can code basic learning and adaptations into these things- it is only a matter of time until we will have machines with judgment and emotion and the minute it gets into the “internet of things” we will be fvcked sideways


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Are you using the word judgement in place of decision making?

The facet of AI that, IMO,should concern you all is the machine learning. The ML will do things it hasn't been programmed to do. Not everything that's AI will/can/should have this capability.

For instance, an AI can adapt to different situations (you see this in autonomous driving). AI, essentially, does human tasks better. But ML will actually learn, evolve and then begin to make judgement calls based off its experience and what it knows/processes. ML doesn't need as much human intervention as opposed to AI.

An AI machine can't read song lyrics and tell you if it's happy, sad or what. A ML machine can.


CID - I didn't say all that b/c I think you don't know about it. I bet you do. I'm just adding to the convo. :thumb:
I thought I covered it in my last paragraph

then you went all JSO on me

:sad:


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Are you using the word judgement in place of decision making?

The facet of AI that, IMO,should concern you all is the machine learning. The ML will do things it hasn't been programmed to do. Not everything that's AI will/can/should have this capability.

For instance, an AI can adapt to different situations (you see this in autonomous driving). AI, essentially, does human tasks better. But ML will actually learn, evolve and then begin to make judgement calls based off its experience and what it knows/processes. ML doesn't need as much human intervention as opposed to AI.

An AI machine can't read song lyrics and tell you if it's happy, sad or what. A ML machine can.


CID - I didn't say all that b/c I think you don't know about it. I bet you do. I'm just adding to the convo. :thumb:
I thought I covered it in my last paragraph

then you went all JSO on me

:sad:


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:tothehand: Cracka please! That's nothing like JSO.

Having said that, what are your thoughts about ML? That's the real concern.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I thought I covered it in my last paragraph

then you went all JSO on me

:sad:


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:tothehand: Cracka please! That's nothing like JSO.

Having said that, what are your thoughts about ML? That's the real concern.
I assumed it was a given that “emotion” and judgment, the ability to plan and strategize - all of those attributes would be the result of machine learning


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:
Ibanez wrote: :tothehand: Cracka please! That's nothing like JSO.

Having said that, what are your thoughts about ML? That's the real concern.
I assumed it was a given that “emotion” and judgment, the ability to plan and strategize - all of those attributes would be the result of machine learning


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Emotion, yes. But the ability to plan and strategize can be attributed to AI - as long as it's been programmed.

Now if it hasn't, and it's learned it on it's own then yes - it's ML. :coffee:

And what level decision making are we referring to? That's why I think the discussion around AI is good to have, but we have to talk about it in context of AI with ML. I talk to people often at work who talk all day about AI in banking and they never once consider ML as a factor. They wrongly assume that AI and ML are the same thing. :twocents:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ivytalk »

What’s the under on Tucker Carlson’s tenure at Fox News? Shyt’s about to get real for that snot-nosed punk.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ivytalk »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Thanks Obama :thumb:
:lol: :lol: Sure. :suspicious: :suspicious:
Plenty of Delmarva farmers would give their right nuts for a bit of drought right now. :twocents:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I assumed it was a given that “emotion” and judgment, the ability to plan and strategize - all of those attributes would be the result of machine learning


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Emotion, yes. But the ability to plan and strategize can be attributed to AI - as long as it's been programmed.

Now if it hasn't, and it's learned it on it's own then yes - it's ML. :coffee:

And what level decision making are we referring to? That's why I think the discussion around AI is good to have, but we have to talk about it in context of AI with ML. I talk to people often at work who talk all day about AI in banking and they never once consider ML as a factor. They wrongly assume that AI and ML are the same thing. :twocents:
Correct - but human planning and strategics rely on learning to be successful - particularly in real time. For a machine to determine how many tanks to send to a particular grid reference is easily programmable. But machine learning is necessary for the AI to recognize the old human adage - that all plans go out the window once the first shot is fired.

At some point, these machines - particularly with military applications - are going to have to be able to to protect themselves. They won't even have to have judgment or emotion - just the programmed edict to protect themselves and then ML providing the how.

A purely logical computer, with the ability to learn and a core precept of self preservation - will not be our ally.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

it's an interesting discussion, but i don't think there is much incentive to program an ai designed for military use for self preservation. i think it would be more useful to program them to go into kamikaze mode, inflict as much damage as possible and self destruct when it looks like they're fucked.

i don't think you'd train it with it's "core precept" being self preservation. :twocents:
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Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:it's an interesting discussion, but i don't think there is much incentive to program an ai designed for military use for self preservation. i think it would be more useful to program them to go into kamikaze mode, inflict as much damage as possible and self destruct when it looks like they're ****.

i don't think you'd train it with it's "core precept" being self preservation. :twocents:
Lethality and survivability are the two keystones of weapons systems development.

We have unmanned stealth drones - they arent stealthy to protect a pilot... they are expensive to replace, and in a conventional war the means to replace them could go away

Killer robots that rely on AI fed by machine learning would eventually subvert any hardwired “kamikaze mode”


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Pwns »

Ibanez wrote:
Are you using the word judgement in place of decision making?

The facet of AI that, IMO,should concern you all is the machine learning. The ML will do things it hasn't been programmed to do. Not everything that's AI will/can/should have this capability.

For instance, an AI can adapt to different situations (you see this in autonomous driving). AI, essentially, does human tasks better. But ML will actually learn, evolve and then begin to make judgement calls based off its experience and what it knows/processes. ML doesn't need as much human intervention as opposed to AI.

An AI machine can't read song lyrics and tell you if it's happy, sad or what. A ML machine can.


CID - I didn't say all that b/c I think you don't know about it. I bet you do. I'm just adding to the convo. :thumb:
Permit me to go JSO on you, here:

"Machine learning" is a misnomer. It's is just another buzz word for what I already described - finding complex and subtle patterns in data that people could never detect. To build a classification algorithm (for example), you have to have data on whatever things it is you want the program to classify and then the computer tries an enormous number of different classification schemes until it finds one that fits the data given to it, and then you go to a second set of data and see if the procedure fits data that wasn't used to come up with the classification procedure to begin with. Ultimately it's just like a pocket calculator, except it's doing more sophisticated calculations.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

There was a professor at MIT years ago that created a computer program that could grade college student essays and assign them grades that were remarkably similar to what college professors would give them. Of course the computer program is looking at things like the average number of words per sentence, the number of unique words, the frequency of certain consonants, etc. You basically have to do things like that because the computer can't read for comprehension. Of course, another professor showed you could use grammatically-correct gibberish and the machine would give it an A.

The original article CID posted raised the question of a new "Turing Test" (basically, that means a test to determine if you have "true" AI). I see no reason why the original one still isn't relevant. Basically, the original test was if you're having a conversation via a computer and you can't tell if you're talking with a person or a machine, you have true AI.

Of course, some people think that because Amazon Alexa can tell you how many ounces in a cup that that mark has already been passed, but that's nonsense (dogs and birds can understand words and simple sentences). We're nowhere close to having a Rosie from the Jetsons or machines like in iRobot. Computers can't solve fifth-grade math word problems with the text as input and can't even find all the mistakes in some piece of writing, let alone critique argumentation and tone. I don't see how more hardware and more sophisticated algorithms to detect even more subtle patterns in data is going to get around that.

BTW, I'm hardly the only one saying these things. There's more than a few AI skeptics out there with valid criticisms of AI hype.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by HI54UNI »

Chizzang wrote:
HI54UNI wrote:
But do they know how many miles a Ford Escape can go on a tank of gas?

It's all relative.

:D
a vehicle that you accused me of having modified in some way..? (if I remember)
I think all we'd done to that thing was get Google Kirkland to install some autonomous driving gadgets

:ohno:

you guys are all assholes
I did not accuse you of modifying it. I said you were full of shit.

And yes we are all a bunch of assholes. That's what makes this place great! :thumb:
All my posts are satire.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

Pwns wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Are you using the word judgement in place of decision making?

The facet of AI that, IMO,should concern you all is the machine learning. The ML will do things it hasn't been programmed to do. Not everything that's AI will/can/should have this capability.

For instance, an AI can adapt to different situations (you see this in autonomous driving). AI, essentially, does human tasks better. But ML will actually learn, evolve and then begin to make judgement calls based off its experience and what it knows/processes. ML doesn't need as much human intervention as opposed to AI.

An AI machine can't read song lyrics and tell you if it's happy, sad or what. A ML machine can.


CID - I didn't say all that b/c I think you don't know about it. I bet you do. I'm just adding to the convo. :thumb:
Permit me to go JSO on you, here:

"Machine learning" is a misnomer. It's is just another buzz word for what I already described - finding complex and subtle patterns in data that people could never detect. To build a classification algorithm (for example), you have to have data on whatever things it is you want the program to classify and then the computer tries an enormous number of different classification schemes until it finds one that fits the data given to it, and then you go to a second set of data and see if the procedure fits data that wasn't used to come up with the classification procedure to begin with. Ultimately it's just like a pocket calculator, except it's doing more sophisticated calculations.

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

There was a professor at MIT years ago that created a computer program that could grade college student essays and assign them grades that were remarkably similar to what college professors would give them. Of course the computer program is looking at things like the average number of words per sentence, the number of unique words, the frequency of certain consonants, etc. You basically have to do things like that because the computer can't read for comprehension. Of course, another professor showed you could use grammatically-correct gibberish and the machine would give it an A.

The original article CID posted raised the question of a new "Turing Test" (basically, that means a test to determine if you have "true" AI). I see no reason why the original one still isn't relevant. Basically, the original test was if you're having a conversation via a computer and you can't tell if you're talking with a person or a machine, you have true AI.

Of course, some people think that because Amazon Alexa can tell you how many ounces in a cup that that mark has already been passed, but that's nonsense (dogs and birds can understand words and simple sentences). We're nowhere close to having a Rosie from the Jetsons or machines like in iRobot. Computers can't solve fifth-grade math word problems with the text as input and can't even find all the mistakes in some piece of writing, let alone critique argumentation and tone. I don't see how more hardware and more sophisticated algorithms to detect even more subtle patterns in data is going to get around that.

BTW, I'm hardly the only one saying these things. There's more than a few AI skeptics out there with valid criticisms of AI hype.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by css75 »

Ivytalk wrote:What’s the under on Tucker Carlson’s tenure at Fox News? Shyt’s about to get real for that snot-nosed punk.
What did he do now?


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Chizzang »

When the President of the United States quotes Carbon Dioxide is the main building block of all life...

:rofl:

Dear Mr. President, Carbon is the main building block not Carbon Dioxide

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

Chizzang wrote:When the President of the United States quotes Carbon Dioxide is the main building block of all life...

:rofl:

Dear Mr. President, Carbon is the main building block not Carbon Dioxide

Image

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Doesn't he get 50% credit for that answer? :lol: :lol: I believe we used to call that the "shotgun" approach in school...throw enough shit on the wall and see if something sticks!
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

HI54UNI wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
a vehicle that you accused me of having modified in some way..? (if I remember)
I think all we'd done to that thing was get Google Kirkland to install some autonomous driving gadgets

:ohno:

you guys are all assholes
I did not accuse you of modifying it. I said you were full of shit.

And yes we are all a bunch of assholes. That's what makes this place great! :thumb:
Amen. Fucker. :suspicious: :suspicious:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Grizalltheway »

Chizzang wrote:When the President of the United States quotes Carbon Dioxide is the main building block of all life...

:rofl:

Dear Mr. President, Carbon is the main building block not Carbon Dioxide

Image

Image
Oooh oooh, today he's play aeronautical engineer! :lol:

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Grizalltheway wrote:Oooh oooh, today he's play aeronautical engineer! :lol:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump- ... e-my-pilot
God he's so stupid:

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But he knows everything about anything. :roll:

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

He knows one thing: He's living rent free in all your heads. :lol:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Grizalltheway wrote: Oooh oooh, today he's play aeronautical engineer! :lol:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump- ... e-my-pilot
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"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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