Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby CID1990 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:28 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
Ibanez wrote: :roll: :ohno:

I do genuinely get that it's a connection between past and present; on the other hand, the engineer in me sees it for what it is: a building. I don't like to get emotionally connected to physical structures because they don't have infinite lifespans and it's just a matter of who'll witness each structure's death.

Plus it's a good opportunity for this generation to leave something even better for the next ones.

Then again, there's quite a few buildings people find worth saving that I think should be torn down. :lol:


There’s a city you’d love then...

Their “urban planning” board is chock full of little Treeps

It is called Saigon and they can’t demolish and uproot fast enough. It was a beautiful city just 10 years ago


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby CID1990 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:31 pm

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:The wooden inside is what’s burning (was all of that original?). The stone walls are still standing.

WWII there were countless buildings & churches heavily damaged and/or destroyed. Many were rebuilt. I don’t know if there were any over 800 years old, but I’m sure there were some. It sucks, but it happens.
There are 1000 ur old churches still standing in France. I’ve been in them. They’ve survived the wars

And I. agree. It sucks. But I still disagree with Trip about tearing them down so we can build some ugly building. Churches, IMO, have gone from these beautiful buildings to steel warehouse looking garbage dumps. They’re terrible.


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You know what makes those old cathedrals beautiful?

Imperfect engineering practices

Flying buttresses were the answer to building tall stone structures before the days of steel

Makes it easier for God to drop them on the heads of the faithful


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:59 pm

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:I do genuinely get that it's a connection between past and present; on the other hand, the engineer in me sees it for what it is: a building. I don't like to get emotionally connected to physical structures because they don't have infinite lifespans and it's just a matter of who'll witness each structure's death.

Plus it's a good opportunity for this generation to leave something even better for the next ones.

Then again, there's quite a few buildings people find worth saving that I think should be torn down. :lol:


There’s a city you’d love then...

Their “urban planning” board is chock full of little Treeps

It is called Saigon and they can’t demolish and uproot fast enough. It was a beautiful city just 10 years ago

I find the evolution of cities quite beautiful. To me, they's one of mankind's ultimate achievements and reflect our story. When they stay the same, it only shows a society's lack of progress or disastrous encounter.

I've never been to Ho Chi Minh, but I'm sure it'll benefit from modern structures than ones that are decades past their useful lives, regardless of how "pretty" they looked. It's simply the way of the world.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby kalm » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:13 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
There’s a city you’d love then...

Their “urban planning” board is chock full of little Treeps

It is called Saigon and they can’t demolish and uproot fast enough. It was a beautiful city just 10 years ago

I find the evolution of cities quite beautiful. To me, they's one of mankind's ultimate achievements and reflect our story. When they stay the same, it only shows a society's lack of progress or disastrous encounter.

I've never been to Ho Chi Minh, but I'm sure it'll benefit from modern structures than ones that are decades past their useful lives, regardless of how "pretty" they looked. It's simply the way of the world.


It’s been decades since I read the Fountainhead but for some reason you’re reminding me right now of sOme JSO-Howard Roarke hybrid...

Which is quite unsettling...
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Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby CID1990 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:47 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
There’s a city you’d love then...

Their “urban planning” board is chock full of little Treeps

It is called Saigon and they can’t demolish and uproot fast enough. It was a beautiful city just 10 years ago

I find the evolution of cities quite beautiful. To me, they's one of mankind's ultimate achievements and reflect our story. When they stay the same, it only shows a society's lack of progress or disastrous encounter.

I've never been to Ho Chi Minh, but I'm sure it'll benefit from modern structures than ones that are decades past their useful lives, regardless of how "pretty" they looked. It's simply the way of the world.


I’m not talking about HCMC... I’m talking about Saigon.

Do you know the difference?

This is Saigon City Hall, which is in Ho Chi Minh City:
Image

Saigon Opera House:

Image

Saigon Central Post Office:

Image

Image

Saigon Notre Dame:

Image

All of these buildings are on the eventual chopping block. Ironic that the French colonial buildings are the last to go... the Vietnamese got rid of most of their indigenous architecture years ago.

The author of this article also doesn’t understand the distinction between Saigon and HCMC- yet the entire article is about District 1, which is Saigon:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019 ... ge-vietnam





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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:16 am

I did not understand the distinction.

Those are gorgeous buildings, but if society's slated for their destruction for whatever's necessary, it's their choice. I'm not sure why the Cathedral would be destroyed unless its outgrown the parish, but I'm sure there's no separation of church and state in Vietnam (which is a separate subject).

Again, I don't think every structure ever created that's reached a certain age is worth saving.

I do think something like Notre Dame with rich history and architecture is worth it, but I don't weep its destruction unless human lives are involved. Luckily Notre Dame was saved and can now be built into something even better; the fire is now part of its history and this generation can add to the story.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby 93henfan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:31 am

Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby CID1990 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:34 am

93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.


Well that’s another issue - of course this could have been prevented


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:43 am

93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.

It'll be a better cathedral because of this, and hopefully last even longer.

And the history will still be there; if anything, the fire adds to it.

The best thing here is that no one died.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby CID1990 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:52 am

∞∞∞ wrote:
93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.

It'll be a better cathedral because of this, and hopefully last even longer.

And the history will still be there; if anything, the fire adds to it.

The best thing here is that no one died.


God’s getting rusty in his old age.

He used to take out whole parishes when he dropped these things


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:31 am

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:It'll be a better cathedral because of this, and hopefully last even longer.

And the history will still be there; if anything, the fire adds to it.

The best thing here is that no one died.


God’s getting rusty in his old age.

He used to take out whole parishes when he dropped these things.

My favorite are those grasping for symbolism in this, especially connecting it to "western decline."

Hell we've lost more grand structures to natural disasters, fire, neglect, obsoletion, and war than we've saved. A fire like this is pretty normal when it comes to the course of human history. If anything it's a miracle Notre Dame lasted this long without a major disaster. :lol:

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby Ivytalk » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:48 am

kalm wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:I find the evolution of cities quite beautiful. To me, they's one of mankind's ultimate achievements and reflect our story. When they stay the same, it only shows a society's lack of progress or disastrous encounter.

I've never been to Ho Chi Minh, but I'm sure it'll benefit from modern structures than ones that are decades past their useful lives, regardless of how "pretty" they looked. It's simply the way of the world.


It’s been decades since I read the Fountainhead but for some reason you’re reminding me right now of sOme JSO-Howard Roarke hybrid...

Which is quite unsettling...

You’re a better Libertarian than I am. ;) I find Ayn Rand’s prose dense and occasionally unintelligible. Haven’t completed a chapter of any of her books. I guess that makes me an LP apostate.

But I hear she fucked like a bunny, so there’s that.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby Ibanez » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:56 am

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
It’s been decades since I read the Fountainhead but for some reason you’re reminding me right now of sOme JSO-Howard Roarke hybrid...

Which is quite unsettling...

You’re a better Libertarian than I am. ;) I find Ayn Rand’s prose dense and occasionally unintelligible. Haven’t completed a chapter of any of her books. I guess that makes me an LP apostate.

But I hear she fucked like a bunny, so there’s that.

I wanted to read Ayn Rand's books...then I decided to just listen to them on tape.


Then I decided to listen to something better. Her writing is atrocious. It's pure coveffe.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby Col Hogan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:01 am

93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.


CBS News did a feature on Notre Dame a few months ago, focusing on the lack of money to maintain the facility...there is no insurance...they couldn’t even keep the building from slowly falling apart...

The core of the CBS feature was on the fund raising going on to try and simply fix some of the structural deficiencies that have developed over the centuries of no care...

So, maybe the fire will be a blessing in disguise...one French billionaire and his company has already pledged 200 million euros...and the Japanese government has agreed to help fund reconstruction efforts...

:coffee:
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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:07 am

Ibanez wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:You’re a better Libertarian than I am. ;) I find Ayn Rand’s prose dense and occasionally unintelligible. Haven’t completed a chapter of any of her books. I guess that makes me an LP apostate.

But I hear she **** like a bunny, so there’s that.

I wanted to read Ayn Rand's books...then I decided to just listen to them on tape.


Then I decided to listen to something better. Her writing is atrocious. It's pure coveffe.

I've only read Atlas Shrugged and I couldn't get through it. I didn't mind the philosophical undertones she was aiming for, but the writing itself was complete garbage.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby Ibanez » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:14 am

Col Hogan wrote:
93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.


CBS News did a feature on Notre Dame a few months ago, focusing on the lack of money to maintain the facility...there is no insurance...they couldn’t even keep the building from slowly falling apart...

The core of the CBS feature was on the fund raising going on to try and simply fix some of the structural deficiencies that have developed over the centuries of no care...

So, maybe the fire will be a blessing in disguise...one French billionaire and his company has already pledged 200 million euros...and the Japanese government has agreed to help fund reconstruction efforts...

:coffee:

Last I saw about 500M euro have been pledged. Fashion companies have done a lot of restoration work in Europe. Good for them, private industry stepping up to help restore/renovate cultural sites should be encouraged. The Colosseum and Trevi Fountain have all been restored with money from Fendi and some other fashion company but the name escapes me.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby 93henfan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:20 am

∞∞∞ wrote:
Ibanez wrote:I wanted to read Ayn Rand's books...then I decided to just listen to them on tape.


Then I decided to listen to something better. Her writing is atrocious. It's pure coveffe.

I've only read Atlas Shrugged and I couldn't get through it. I didn't mind the philosophical undertones she was aiming for, but the writing itself was complete garbage.


Atlas Shrugged is a great book, but it's too fucking long. Rand was crushing the uppers and it shows. She was tweaking like a muhfuh.

To get the gist of Rand and in a short and interesting read, pick up Anthem. Way better.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:31 am

93henfan wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:I've only read Atlas Shrugged and I couldn't get through it. I didn't mind the philosophical undertones she was aiming for, but the writing itself was complete garbage.


Atlas Shrugged is a great book, but it's too **** long. Rand was crushing the uppers and it shows. She was tweaking like a muhfuh.

To get the jist of Rand and in a short and interesting read, pick up Anthem. Way better.

I mean Rand is a better writer than most of us, but when I read novels, I expect them to flow a little better than some fanfiction story. That said, I get English wasn't her first language.

However if Atlas Shrugged was any indication, Rand's writing doesn't have enough redeeming qualities to endear her to anyone who disagrees with her philosophies. And from what people say, it's a good representation of her writing style. :twocents:

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby 93henfan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:36 am

It's not really representative. In Atlas, the titans of industry and JG all go on rants for dozens of pages each. It's like a JSO post each. I can only figure that Rand was trying to make her own epic novel, because Anthem covers the same topics in about 5% of the words. The two books are completely different in style.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby 89Hen » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:47 am

∞∞∞ wrote:Frank Lloyd Wright is one of the biggest examples of my thinking (and probably influenced it).

One of his core beliefs as an architect is that structures are living entities and that like life itself, they are meant to die. People preserving his stuff will even tell you he'd be shocked, and possibly disappointed, his stuff is still standing today.

FLW said that? I've seen lots of quotes by him but nothing that comes close to even implying that.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby Ivytalk » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:50 am

93henfan wrote:It's like a JSO post each.


I rest my case. :coffee:
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:03 am

89Hen wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:Frank Lloyd Wright is one of the biggest examples of my thinking (and probably influenced it).

One of his core beliefs as an architect is that structures are living entities and that like life itself, they are meant to die. People preserving his stuff will even tell you he'd be shocked, and possibly disappointed, his stuff is still standing today.

FLW said that? I've seen lots of quotes by him but nothing that comes close to even implying that.

I'd have to look at my sources at home to find you hard quotes, but it's one reason Wright never gave a sh*t about maintenance and why his homes are notoriously tough to upkeep.

Part of his whole organic architecture philosophy.

Sometimes I think he might have used it as an excuse for his bad practices though. :lol:

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby CID1990 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:06 am

Ibanez wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:You’re a better Libertarian than I am. ;) I find Ayn Rand’s prose dense and occasionally unintelligible. Haven’t completed a chapter of any of her books. I guess that makes me an LP apostate.

But I hear she **** like a bunny, so there’s that.

I wanted to read Ayn Rand's books...then I decided to just listen to them on tape.


Then I decided to listen to something better. Her writing is atrocious. It's pure coveffe.


*Covefe
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby Ibanez » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:07 am

CID1990 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:I wanted to read Ayn Rand's books...then I decided to just listen to them on tape.


Then I decided to listen to something better. Her writing is atrocious. It's pure coveffe.


*Covefe

I’m using the Middle French spelling.


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Postby CID1990 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:15 am

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
*Covefe

I’m using the Middle French spelling.


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That would be covfefeaux
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