Coronavirus COVID-19

[CAA Flagship]

It's there. I just don't trust those numbers though. I can believe the "recovered" data though.


BTW, news breaking now that China is flooding the market with faulty antibody tests. These fuckers are shit. Trump should up the tariffs to get US companies to move away from China manufacturing faster.

They don't have a serious case count for the US...unless they moved it to a different page.

And yeah, Fuck China.

Why do I see it and you don't?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[CAA Flagship]

It's there. I just don't trust those numbers though. I can believe the "recovered" data though.


BTW, news breaking now that China is flooding the market with faulty antibody tests. These fuckers are shit. Trump should up the tariffs to get US companies to move away from China manufacturing faster.

Except...
Who exactly is going to finance the $2 trillion stimulus bill?

Needs to be spread out over other shit countries like Vietnam, Argentina, Kansas, and Maine.

[CAA Flagship]

I was talking with my sister last night (surgical icu nurse and hospital admin staff) and it sounds like Atlanta is in trouble. They're expecting the shit to the fan this week and have put out requests to at least 10 other hospitals in the south begging for 32 surgical nurses and 32 ICU nurses. Georgia is not prepared. I don't know about the rest of SC, but the Medical University of SC in Charleston, according to her, is expecting their peak in a week or two and think they'll be ready to handle it.

I've reached out to my cousins wife, a nurse in Atlanta, to see what she says.

What's so special about a "surgical" nurse when dealing with COVID patients? Ventilation?

[kalm]

So basically they are reverse engineering...err I should say reverse modeling based on deaths. Yeah time to work up a new algorithm for the model or just not use this one anymore.

Berenson was heavily criticized in his reefer madness 2.0 book for confusing causation with correlation.

Why wouldn’t you model based on deaths? What other data is available?

[CAA Flagship]

So basically they are reverse engineering...err I should say reverse modeling based on deaths. Yeah time to work up a new algorithm for the model or just not use this one anymore.

Berenson was heavily criticized in his reefer madness 2.0 book for confusing causation with correlation.

Why wouldn’t you model based on deaths? What other data is available?

I was thinking the same thing. I don't have a problem with going backwards to get to beds/ventilators from deaths, but clearly there were several other factors that were way off. I think the biggest one is the success of shelter at home. We are just now seeing the success of it. Models developed a month ago did not have that factored in, IMO.

[kalm]

Berenson was heavily criticized in his reefer madness 2.0 book for confusing causation with correlation.

Why wouldn’t you model based on deaths? What other data is available?

I was thinking the same thing. I don't have a problem with going backwards to get to beds/ventilators from deaths, but clearly there were several other factors that were way off. I think the biggest one is the success of shelter at home. We are just now seeing the success of it. Models developed a month ago did not have that factored in, IMO.

Yep.

The errors this model produces are not errors, they are the differences of a dynamic multiple variable scenario that in the end from a war fighting perspective you want. They’re predictive for policy makers. The model forces you to error to the good from a war fighting perspective, plan for the shitty, hope for the better.

If tactics reduce the death and infection rates, their projections are proven less accurate. That’s how you win.

“You play....to win the game!”

[Rob Iola]

I was talking with my sister last night (surgical icu nurse and hospital admin staff) and it sounds like Atlanta is in trouble. They're expecting the shit to the fan this week and have put out requests to at least 10 other hospitals in the south begging for 32 surgical nurses and 32 ICU nurses. Georgia is not prepared. I don't know about the rest of SC, but the Medical University of SC in Charleston, according to her, is expecting their peak in a week or two and think they'll be ready to handle it.

I've reached out to my cousins wife, a nurse in Atlanta, to see what she says.

What's so special about a "surgical" nurse when dealing with COVID patients? Ventilation?

Intubation probably requires advanced nursing skills. That would be my guess.

[Gil Dobie]

In general, M/S nurses provide care and treatment to ill, injured, and recovering adults. The medical-surgical nurse must be able to assess patient condition, administer medications, change dressings, monitor vital signs, keep records, and provide patients with support and education.

[CAA Flagship]

What's so special about a "surgical" nurse when dealing with COVID patients? Ventilation?

Intubation probably requires advanced nursing skills. That would be my guess.

Prolly right.

[Ibanez]

I was talking with my sister last night (surgical icu nurse and hospital admin staff) and it sounds like Atlanta is in trouble. They're expecting the shit to the fan this week and have put out requests to at least 10 other hospitals in the south begging for 32 surgical nurses and 32 ICU nurses. Georgia is not prepared. I don't know about the rest of SC, but the Medical University of SC in Charleston, according to her, is expecting their peak in a week or two and think they'll be ready to handle it.

I've reached out to my cousins wife, a nurse in Atlanta, to see what she says.

What's so special about a "surgical" nurse when dealing with COVID patients? Ventilation?

I think it's the highly skilled aspect. Surgical nurses can provide standard level of care but also are trained for ICUs whereas an OR nurse has basic skills plus skill to assist during operations. In this instance, it's the experience with critical care patients and the equipment. I think. I'd ask my sister but she's working.

[AZGrizFan]

I was thinking the same thing. I don't have a problem with going backwards to get to beds/ventilators from deaths, but clearly there were several other factors that were way off. I think the biggest one is the success of shelter at home. We are just now seeing the success of it. Models developed a month ago did not have that factored in, IMO.

Yep.

The errors this model produces are not errors, they are the differences of a dynamic multiple variable scenario that in the end from a war fighting perspective you want. They’re predictive for policy makers. The model forces you to error to the good from a war fighting perspective, plan for the shitty, hope for the better.

If tactics reduce the death and infection rates, their projections are proven less accurate. That’s how you win.

“You play....to win the game!”

I have problem calculating backwards from deaths when EVERY person who dies with the virus in their system is counted as a death regardless of whether the virus had anything to do with their death.

And oh, “they’re predictive for policy makers” alright....how else do you get this kind of a money and power grab without “chicken little, the sky is falling” predictions of bodies piling up in the streets if we don’t obey?

[Ibanez]

What's so special about a "surgical" nurse when dealing with COVID patients? Ventilation?

Intubation probably requires advanced nursing skills. That would be my guess.

As I understand - nurses assist but don't actually perform incubation. That's the doctor. But they have to know how to do it, how to remove the tubes, how to prepare for it, etc... and it's more common with critical care patients. There are places/situations where the nurse is allowed to.

I'm not in medicine, obviously. Many immediate family members, aunts, cousins, sister in law,etc... are nurses and/or doctors and some have gone on to teach at medical hospitals. I don't pretend to know everything but I've learned a helluva lot by listening to two of my siblings with medical backgrounds talk about this stuff and a lot of it has been recent.

[Gil Dobie]

Yep.

The errors this model produces are not errors, they are the differences of a dynamic multiple variable scenario that in the end from a war fighting perspective you want. They’re predictive for policy makers. The model forces you to error to the good from a war fighting perspective, plan for the shitty, hope for the better.

If tactics reduce the death and infection rates, their projections are proven less accurate. That’s how you win.

“You play....to win the game!”

I have problem calculating backwards from deaths when EVERY person who dies with the virus in their system is counted as a death regardless of whether the virus had anything to do with their death.

And oh, “they’re predictive for policy makers” alright....how else do you get this kind of a money and power grab without “chicken little, the sky is falling” predictions of bodies piling up in the streets if we don’t obey?

I don't think they are counting drunk driver deaths with COVID-19 positive people as COVID-19 deaths.

It's highly likely that COVID-19 was a major contributor to anyone with compromised immune systems. It's not easy to live with these compromises when you lungs are filling with fluid, and your heart has trouble getting Oxygen, and your tongue cleaveth to your jaws, and thou has brought me into the dust of death.

[AZGrizFan]

I have problem calculating backwards from deaths when EVERY person who dies with the virus in their system is counted as a death regardless of whether the virus had anything to do with their death.

And oh, “they’re predictive for policy makers” alright....how else do you get this kind of a money and power grab without “chicken little, the sky is falling” predictions of bodies piling up in the streets if we don’t obey?

I don't think they are counting drunk driver deaths with COVID-19 positive people as COVID-19 deaths.

It's highly likely that COVID-19 was a major contributor to anyone with compromised immune systems. It's not easy to live with these compromises when you lungs are filling with fluid, and your heart has trouble getting Oxygen, and your tongue cleaveth to your jaws, and thou has brought me into the dust of death.

CDC has already said what they’re doing....it’s wrong, skews statistics, and is morally bankrupt.

[Chizzang]

I don't think they are counting drunk driver deaths with COVID-19 positive people as COVID-19 deaths.

It's highly likely that COVID-19 was a major contributor to anyone with compromised immune systems. It's not easy to live with these compromises when you lungs are filling with fluid, and your heart has trouble getting Oxygen, and your tongue cleaveth to your jaws, and thou has brought me into the dust of death.

CDC has already said what they’re doing....it’s wrong, skews statistics, and is morally bankrupt.

link



I have to admit this has been a great thread...

[AZGrizFan]

CDC has already said what they’re doing....it’s wrong, skews statistics, and is morally bankrupt.

link

ANY death with COVID in their system is counted. Period. That’s straight from the CDC.

[Chizzang]

link

ANY death with COVID in their system is counted. Period. That’s straight from the CDC.

link

[AZGrizFan]

Oh, and criticize Berenson all you want, but he’s been all over this shit. And spot on. The UW ‘model’ (and I hesitate to even call it that) has been a certifiable fucking joke. They updated their model TODAY. Their numbers for TODAY are off by 33%.

Seriously? Who does that? How can you be off that far for TODAY’s numbers? Whatever assumptions they’re baking into it are so far off as to be comical.

[kalm]

Intubation probably requires advanced nursing skills. That would be my guess.

As I understand - nurses assist but don't actually perform incubation. That's the doctor. But they have to know how to do it, how to remove the tubes, how to prepare for it, etc... and it's more common with critical care patients. There are places/situations where the nurse is allowed to.

I'm not in medicine, obviously. Many immediate family members, aunts, cousins, sister in law,etc... are nurses and/or doctors and some have gone on to teach at medical hospitals. I don't pretend to know everything but I've learned a helluva lot by listening to two of my siblings with medical backgrounds talk about this stuff and a lot of it has been recent.

And there’s literally something called a “respiratory therapist”. I’m guessing they’re in short supply, overseeing bunches of patients and quickly guiding other nurses on how to operate equipment and monitor patients.

[kalm]

Oh, and criticize Berenson all you want, but he’s been all over this shit. And spot on. The UW ‘model’ (and I hesitate to even call it that) has been a certifiable fucking joke. They updated their model TODAY. Their numbers for TODAY are off by 33%.

Seriously? Who does that? How can you be off that far for TODAY’s numbers? Whatever assumptions they’re baking into it are so far off as to be comical.

He’s The go to for people still in the denial and anger stages. Typically conservatives who think they understand the data and actions needed better than teams of experts who are responsible for saving lives and minimizing spread on a local, state, and national level.

[Gil Dobie]

As I understand - nurses assist but don't actually perform incubation. That's the doctor. But they have to know how to do it, how to remove the tubes, how to prepare for it, etc... and it's more common with critical care patients. There are places/situations where the nurse is allowed to.

I'm not in medicine, obviously. Many immediate family members, aunts, cousins, sister in law,etc... are nurses and/or doctors and some have gone on to teach at medical hospitals. I don't pretend to know everything but I've learned a helluva lot by listening to two of my siblings with medical backgrounds talk about this stuff and a lot of it has been recent.

And there’s literally something called a “respiratory therapist”. I’m guessing they’re in short supply, overseeing bunches of patients and quickly guiding other nurses on how to operate equipment and monitor patients.

From my experience with my ex-wife's crew (RN), a surgical nurse's specific specialty is working in the OR, a respiratory therapist is a respiratory concerns, while a nurse does more than that.

[AZGrizFan]

Oh, and criticize Berenson all you want, but he’s been all over this shit. And spot on. The UW ‘model’ (and I hesitate to even call it that) has been a certifiable fucking joke. They updated their model TODAY. Their numbers for TODAY are off by 33%.

Seriously? Who does that? How can you be off that far for TODAY’s numbers? Whatever assumptions they’re baking into it are so far off as to be comical.

He’s The go to for people still in the denial and anger stages. Typically conservatives who think they understand the data and actions needed better than teams of experts who are responsible for saving lives and minimizing spread on a local, state, and national level.

Well it’s become painfully obvious that the “experts” don’t understand the data. That much has been made very, very clear.

[grizzaholic]

Stay safe out there AZ.

Carrollton Police Search for Woman Threatening, in Video, to Spread COVID-19

By Sophia Beausoleil • Published April 5, 2020 • Updated 1 hour ago
NBCUniversal, Inc.
Carrollton police are looking for a woman they say claims to have COVID-19 and is "willfully spreading it."

Police will charge 18-year-old Lorraine Maradiaga with making a terroristic threat, according to a tweet from the department.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus ... 9/2345999/

[Gil Dobie]

He’s The go to for people still in the denial and anger stages. Typically conservatives who think they understand the data and actions needed better than teams of experts who are responsible for saving lives and minimizing spread on a local, state, and national level.

Well it’s become painfully obvious that the “experts” don’t understand the data. That much has been made very, very clear.

Depends on who is paying which expert.

[dbackjon]

Sure. Especially when ANYBODY who dies with Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus in their body, WHETHER IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEIR DEATH OR NOT, is being counted as a Chinese Wuhan Corona Virus death.....WAFJ.

Do you want them to perform a full autopsy on every single death to make sure? Probably should make sure they have even more PPE so they can worry bout the dead folks.

But, at least you aren't still arguing that it's not exponential growth. Just #FakeNumbers

There also hundreds, if not thousands of deaths that are caused by Covid-19 that aren't in the official numbers because the person was never tested.