Coronavirus COVID-19

[AZGrizFan]

Speaking of masks: I have to shake my head when I see stuff like Desantis saying that parents can have their children wear masks to school if they want to. I know the guy is smart. He knows better.

If you are a parent that understands the situation you know that the primary purpose of masking is to reduce the risk that an infected individual will infect others. It's not to protect the mask wearer. It's a source control. Not shield. So if you're a parent that understands the situation you are not going to like your kid going to a school where none of the other kids are wearing masks or only a small proportion of them are. Especially not in Florida right now where things are out of control.

It is true that cloth masks reduce the risk but the reduction is negligible.

Numerous and sundry virology experts have been well documented and on record that the reduction in risk by two people wearing masks in close prox to each other are afforded a heightened level of protection that is statistically insignificant. Most masks are generally useless in this context.

N95 masks tailored to fit the face DO significantly reduce the risk of transmission.

Cotton cloth Hello Kitty masks do not, and that is the devil in the details that is obscured by the political bent to the debate, and one that you are perpetuating.


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Hey now. The airlines have ASSURED me that as long as I’m not wearing a gator, I’m good to go. I’ll continue wearing my cloth Hello Kitty mask…they are, after all, the experts.

[AZGrizFan]

I just love how, every time trip's arguments get destroyed, he just disappears and acts like it never happened....then he'll be back on some OTHER thread, making absolutism claims, and it's like "rinse, repeat"....deja vu all over again.

I don't live on the internet. I said my peace and you yours. I read the replies, but don't find it necessary to respond to everything.

*piece

You’re becoming more and more like klammy every day. No wonder he adores you.

[CID1990]

It is true that cloth masks reduce the risk but the reduction is negligible.

Numerous and sundry virology experts have been well documented and on record that the reduction in risk by two people wearing masks in close prox to each other are afforded a heightened level of protection that is statistically insignificant. Most masks are generally useless in this context.

N95 masks tailored to fit the face DO significantly reduce the risk of transmission.

Cotton cloth Hello Kitty masks do not, and that is the devil in the details that is obscured by the political bent to the debate, and one that you are perpetuating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey now. The airlines have ASSURED me that as long as I’m not wearing a gator, I’m good to go. I’ll continue wearing my cloth Hello Kitty mask…they are, after all, the experts.

*gaiter


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[CID1990]

Hey JSO

You never replied to my comment about evidence vs probability in the COVID origins debate

I took that as a tapout

But what do you think about the virologist Wilson Edwards’ claims about the origin debate, re: the WHO report and the politics of the origin debate?

His arguments remind me a lot of your own


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[AZGrizFan]

Hey now. The airlines have ASSURED me that as long as I’m not wearing a gator, I’m good to go. I’ll continue wearing my cloth Hello Kitty mask…they are, after all, the experts.

*gaiter


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Touché.

[SDHornet]

CDC posts false data about Florida:
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2021/08 ... se-n424791

There’s a lot of Dem panic over DeSantis

We’re seeing a holistic, “all of government” full court press on Florida now, and it will continue in a steady crescendo until 2024

When the WH spox says your name in every daily press conference....


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Yup. They scared.

[kalm]

Start with...he’s probably content with this post of yours....

As usual... the board “moderate” tweaked by a dig at the proletariat

Even before the proletariat itself responds




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Well technically it’s “post-partisan” but I do appreciate the attention...stalker.

[Ibanez]

This this this. I'm dreading having to return. Sept 9 is my date of return. I'm hoping BAC follows the other banks and pushes it back.

Get ready for that date to be pushed back. We went back 3 days a week beginning June 2, and this week went BACK to full remote because of climbing case counts.

I know!! We've been expecting it but so far we have just received emails saying the plan is still have us back by Sept 9. Already, 2 waves of RTO have occurred.

[GannonFan]

Should have Googled about what Osterholm has to say abut face masks the first time. Here is a commentary by him on his position on the matter:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... g-covid-19

Again, I want to make it very clear that I support the use of cloth face coverings by the general public.

He's doesn't have the same position as Paul does.

I'm sure it's nuanced, but you posted a link to what this Osterholm guy said and you pretty much parsed a very small quote from there. He goes on quite a lot in that article and he pretty much goes to the same conclusion others have said here, that the benefit of masks are limited. Here's a direct quote from the same article you just posted:

"[The general public] should be made aware that [cloth] masks may provide some benefit in reducing the risk of virus transmission, but at best it can only be anticipated to be limited. Distancing remains the most important risk reduction action they can take. ... The messaging that dominates our COVID-19 discussions right now makes it seem that—if we are wearing cloth masks—you're not going to infect me and I'm not going to infect you. I worry that many people highly vulnerable to life-threatening COVID-19 will hear this message and make decisions that they otherwise wouldn't have made about distancing because of an unproven sense of cloth mask security."

[AZGrizFan]

As usual... the board “moderate” tweaked by a dig at the proletariat

Even before the proletariat itself responds




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Well technically it’s “post-partisan” but I do appreciate the attention...stalker.

one thing is certain....your boy crush on trip is creepy as fuck.

[kalm]

Well technically it’s “post-partisan” but I do appreciate the attention...stalker.

one thing is certain....your boy crush on trip is creepy as fuck.

No...Mondo straight!

[AZGrizFan]

one thing is certain....your boy crush on trip is creepy as fuck.

No...Mondo straight!

You punch a horse and I'm outta here.

[Winterborn]

Speaking of masks: I have to shake my head when I see stuff like Desantis saying that parents can have their children wear masks to school if they want to. I know the guy is smart. He knows better.

If you are a parent that understands the situation you know that the primary purpose of masking is to reduce the risk that an infected individual will infect others. It's not to protect the mask wearer. It's a source control. Not shield. So if you're a parent that understands the situation you are not going to like your kid going to a school where none of the other kids are wearing masks or only a small proportion of them are. Especially not in Florida right now where things are out of control.

It is true that cloth masks reduce the risk but the reduction is negligible.

Numerous and sundry virology experts have been well documented and on record that the reduction in risk by two people wearing masks in close prox to each other are afforded a heightened level of protection that is statistically insignificant. Most masks are generally useless in this context.

N95 masks tailored to fit the face DO significantly reduce the risk of transmission.

Cotton cloth Hello Kitty masks do not, and that is the devil in the details that is obscured by the political bent to the debate, and one that you are perpetuating.


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Said this exact same thing middle of last year.

[Winterborn]

Get ready for that date to be pushed back. We went back 3 days a week beginning June 2, and this week went BACK to full remote because of climbing case counts.

I know!! We've been expecting it but so far we have just received emails saying the plan is still have us back by Sept 9. Already, 2 waves of RTO have occurred.

During our quarterly company meeting we were told that masks will be required at all locations no matter if one has the vaccine or not. A few of us started working from home again (they would like everybody in the office as we are more productive) as one is pretty muffled trying to talk through a mask on a Teams call.

My boss talked to HR and the reason for the mask policy is not what one would expect. It has nothing to do with keeping the spread down but everything to do with mitigating the liability risks. Which is why they stated that the CDC guidelines are to be followed. Out President, in not so many words, said it is a crock of BS (that the vaccinated get dumped in with the recovered and non-vacinated) but there is nothing they can do due to mitigating the legal risks. Good news is they are evaluating it on a week by week basis so there is at least a plan in place.

[AZGrizFan]

I know!! We've been expecting it but so far we have just received emails saying the plan is still have us back by Sept 9. Already, 2 waves of RTO have occurred.

During our quarterly company meeting we were told that masks will be required at all locations no matter if one has the vaccine or not. A few of us started working from home again (they would like everybody in the office as we are more productive) as one is pretty muffled trying to talk through a mask on a Teams call.

My boss talked to HR and the reason for the mask policy is not what one would expect. It has nothing to do with keeping the spread down but everything to do with mitigating the liability risks. Which is why they stated that the CDC guidelines are to be followed. Out President, in not so many words, said it is a crock of BS (that the vaccinated get dumped in with the recovered and non-vacinated) but there is nothing they can do due to mitigating the legal risks. Good news is they are evaluating it on a week by week basis so there is at least a plan in place.

Sounds like your President is a spineless twat.

[Winterborn]

One would think that there would be multiple people to review content before it is made public.

Another CDC data flub distorts delta variant contagiousness. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) claimed the delta variant of COVID-19 is "as transmissible as" chickenpox. It's not true.

Chickenpox, caused by the varicella-zoster virus, is one of the most contagious diseases we know of. "If one person has it, up to 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected," states the CDC website.

One person infected with chickenpox will infect an average of 10 people when everyone in a population is vulnerable to catching it. (This transmissibility number—referred to as R0—goes down when people have immunity to the disease.)

"The initial COVID-19 strain had an R0 between two and three," computational biologist Karthik Gangavarapu told NPR. The delta variant has an R0 between six and seven. For chickenpox, the R0 is nine or 10.

How did the CDC conclude that these were equivalent?

For one, the leaked document underestimated the R0 for chickenpox and overestimated the R0 for the delta variant. "The R0 values for delta were preliminary and calculated from data taken from a rather small sample size," a federal official told NPR. The value for the chickenpox (and other R0s in the slideshow) came from a graphic from The New York Times, which wasn't completely accurate.

Apparently, the federal agency charged with disseminating COVID-19 data and setting public health policy is taking its cues from a newspaper infographic.

https://reason.com/2021/08/12/cdc-took- ... arsely-api

[Winterborn]

During our quarterly company meeting we were told that masks will be required at all locations no matter if one has the vaccine or not. A few of us started working from home again (they would like everybody in the office as we are more productive) as one is pretty muffled trying to talk through a mask on a Teams call.

My boss talked to HR and the reason for the mask policy is not what one would expect. It has nothing to do with keeping the spread down but everything to do with mitigating the liability risks. Which is why they stated that the CDC guidelines are to be followed. Out President, in not so many words, said it is a crock of BS (that the vaccinated get dumped in with the recovered and non-vacinated) but there is nothing they can do due to mitigating the legal risks. Good news is they are evaluating it on a week by week basis so there is at least a plan in place.

Sounds like your President is a spineless twat.

Well the lawyers have control in this area and when one lawsuit would wreck the company, what would you do?

There is zero legal coverage from a company legal standpoint right now. One should be treating it like the flu from a liability standpoint, but that legal foundation has not been established yet in the different industries. The Senate and the House had the opportunity last year to provide guidance but as usual ducked that responsibility.

[AZGrizFan]

Sounds like your President is a spineless twat.

Well the lawyers have control in this area and when one lawsuit would wreck the company, what would you do?

There is zero legal coverage from a company legal standpoint right now. One should be treating it like the flu from a liability standpoint, but that legal foundation has not been established yet in the different industries. The Senate and the House had the opportunity last year to provide guidance but as usual ducked that responsibility.

Sounds like your lawyers are spineless twats.

[Winterborn]

Well the lawyers have control in this area and when one lawsuit would wreck the company, what would you do?

There is zero legal coverage from a company legal standpoint right now. One should be treating it like the flu from a liability standpoint, but that legal foundation has not been established yet in the different industries. The Senate and the House had the opportunity last year to provide guidance but as usual ducked that responsibility.

Sounds like your lawyers are spineless twats.

Well they are lawyers...............

There is a reason that most companies above a certain size have done what they could to mitigate the blow back through OSHA and employee lawsuits. The items you mentioned in a earlier post (temp checks, masks, etc.) are all part of the mitigation strategy that we have also taken. It is uncharted territory and no legal team likes that.

[BDKJMU]

I know!! We've been expecting it but so far we have just received emails saying the plan is still have us back by Sept 9. Already, 2 waves of RTO have occurred.

During our quarterly company meeting we were told that masks will be required at all locations no matter if one has the vaccine or not. A few of us started working from home again (they would like everybody in the office as we are more productive) as one is pretty muffled trying to talk through a mask on a Teams call.

My boss talked to HR and the reason for the mask policy is not what one would expect. It has nothing to do with keeping the spread down but everything to do with mitigating the liability risks. Which is why they stated that the CDC guidelines are to be followed. Out President, in not so many words, said it is a crock of BS (that the vaccinated get dumped in with the recovered and non-vacinated) but there is nothing they can do due to mitigating the legal risks. Good news is they are evaluating it on a week by week basis so there is at least a plan in place.

Well, have the policy to satisfy the lawyers, just don’t enforce it.

[Winterborn]

During our quarterly company meeting we were told that masks will be required at all locations no matter if one has the vaccine or not. A few of us started working from home again (they would like everybody in the office as we are more productive) as one is pretty muffled trying to talk through a mask on a Teams call.

My boss talked to HR and the reason for the mask policy is not what one would expect. It has nothing to do with keeping the spread down but everything to do with mitigating the liability risks. Which is why they stated that the CDC guidelines are to be followed. Out President, in not so many words, said it is a crock of BS (that the vaccinated get dumped in with the recovered and non-vacinated) but there is nothing they can do due to mitigating the legal risks. Good news is they are evaluating it on a week by week basis so there is at least a plan in place.

Well, have the policy to satisfy the lawyers, just don’t enforce it.

I take it you have not been involved in any legal proceedings before?

The policy must be defensible. What you just stated would guarantee a loss for any company.

[BDKJMU]

Well, have the policy to satisfy the lawyers, just don’t enforce it.

I take it you have not been involved in any legal proceedings before?

The policy must be defensible. What you just stated would guarantee a loss for any company.

So in other words a company needs to have the policy, and a bunch of mask NAZIs running around telling everone to wear their masks properly, including the vaccinated?

[BDKJMU]

Philly the latest big blue city to reinstitute usueless mask policy:
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/ ... usinesses/

[BDKJMU]

A Black Market in COVID-19 Vaccination Cards Was Inevitable

…..A recent Associated Press investigation found bogus vaccination certificates for sale across social media and on dark web sites for as little as $25. The main customers to-date appear to be college students satisfying school requirements before registering for classes, but more mandates from employers and governments can only mean increased demand.

Of course, the flimsy CDC-issued COVID-19 Vaccination Record Cards aren't exactly high-tech documents designed with security in mind. They require nothing more than a scanner/printer, some card stock, and a few minutes to duplicate for those who care to do the job themselves. That's why governments and businesses are turning to digital vaccine passports that are supposed to be both durable and resistant to fraud. But early efforts haven't been entirely successful.

"I forged it in 11 minutes," Albert Fox Cahn, executive director of The Surveillance Technology Oversight Project, warned in April about New York's much-ballyhooed Excelsior Pass. "Not only do the security promises of New York's Excelsior Pass fail to hold up to scrutiny, but the tracking tech raises an alarming array of public health, equity, and civil rights questions that remain unanswered."

More recently, NBC News's Cyrus Farivar got the NYC Covid Safe App to accept a menu from a barbecue restaurant as proof of vaccination. While it's true that a rack of ribs will cure most ills, that's not much of an endorsement for the app's reliability.

"Some of the apps we've seen are made by companies for whom creating secure health passes isn't a sole focus," point out the Washington Post's Chris Velazco and Geoffrey A. Fowler in a review of competitors in the field. "Others might try to get you to pay after you start using the app. Apps that are poorly or unscrupulously written could be used to violate your privacy."

The digital documents can also be complicated to use, so authorities generally accept paper alternatives—which brings us back to those flimsy CDC cards….

https://reason.com/2021/08/11/a-black-m ... table/?amp

[Winterborn]

I take it you have not been involved in any legal proceedings before?

The policy must be defensible. What you just stated would guarantee a loss for any company.

So in other words a company needs to have the policy, and a bunch of mask NAZIs running around telling everone to wear their masks properly, including the vaccinated?

One needs a policy and then sufficient protocols in place to make sure the policy is followed. In our case we loose a certain percentage of our bonuses and in extreme cases it is cause for termination (if you have been found lying about vaccination status). HR is not going around looking for non-compliance but if somebody does report the company to OSHA (has already happened once in our Minneapolis office) the company has the ability to defend themselves. It is a balancing act.