The Ukraine Crisis

[dbackjon]

He IS savvy, from the standpoint of knowing that a weak, ineffective Biden administration was a prime time to pounce. what he probably DIDN’T account for was the reaction of the REST of the world (or the Ukrainian people, for that matter).

Condoleeza Rice disagrees with you - she thinks Biden is doing great leading the Western response, pressing Europe (especially Germany) on sanctions.

[dbackjon]

The first impeachment was literally because of Trump abusing his power and withholding 400 million from Ukraine. He also tried to extort Zelensky, threatened to pull the US out of NATO, and has now praised Putin twice since the conflict started; the man is definitely a Russian asset, whether he understands it or not. I wonder how much the sanctions are going to hurt Trump too.

Anyway, Putin certainly united the West in no way I've seen in my lifetime. It's wishful thinking, but I hope the sanctions and Ukrainians put enough hurt that his Presidency falls. The ordinary people of Russia certainly deserve better.

Or maybe by next week we're rebuilding civilization.

You mean after Biden did extort Zelensky?

LOL at the Right-wing fantasy. Trump is the one that tried to extort Zelensky to make up dirt on Hunter Biden. Pathetic that the GOP creates messes, then blames the Democrats.

[BDKJMU]

The US should have been leading the charge months ago for a sanctions tripwire to automatically trigger removal from SWIFT and energy sanctions the moment Russian tanks rolled across the border, not getting it done 3 days AFTER the invasion started (too late to be a deterrence to invade). And still no energy sanctions. The other sanctions ate peanuts conpared to SWIFT and energy.

The invasion started in 2014. It was a failure of two Presidential policies (Obama and Trump). Presidencies don't happen in vacuums...Biden can't just come along and undo years of policy and bureaucracy. You can criticize him for not doing more, but let's not revise history.

You're also forgetting this (article from 2017):

President Trump may have been involved with a change to the Republican Party campaign platform last year that watered down support for U.S. assistance to Ukraine, according to new information from someone who was involved.

Diana Denman, a Republican delegate who supported arming U.S. allies in Ukraine, has told people that Trump aide J.D. Gordon said at the Republican Convention in 2016 that Trump directed him to support weakening that position in the official platform.

Ultimately, the softer position was adopted.

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/04/56831079 ... ne-support

BTW, it's a policy still adopted by the official GOP platform...

And you’re forgetting this from last year:

White House Delays Moving Military Assistance to Ukraine

….Congress is growing increasingly frustrated that the Biden administration has not moved forward with a package of military assistance destined for Ukraine, sources familiar with the decision said, fearing that the White House is doing too little to stave off the possibility of a Russian military invasion of the country.

The White House has not yet OK’d a package of lethal and non-lethal assistance for the Ukrainian military that includes Javelin anti-tank munitions, counter-artillery radars, sniper rifles, assorted small arms, and communications and electronic warfare equipment, according to a source familiar with the matter. NBC News first reported that the military assistance was being held up on Saturday.

The White House has been worried that the assistance would be too provocative to Russia, the source said. The Biden administration followed a similar logic in April when holding up military aid to Ukraine that was eventually delivered to Kyiv after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky visited Washington in August….

“The next round of lethal aid is literally sitting on [Biden’s] desk,” Waltz said. “[The] Ukrainians are practically begging for it. There was frustration among some of the American team out there that it’s moving slowly. They don’t understand.” ….

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/12/16/us ... delay-aid/

Yeah, we wouldn’t want to be too provacative to Russia. I guess last year Biden was too busy arming the Taliban..

[Ibanez]

Had that thought last night. Why hasn't Seal Team 6 or MOSSAD been sent in a team to kill him. Seems we can "easily" do that with drones

Yeah, maybe Seal Team 6 could fly to Russia, parachute in, slip into the Kremlin undetected, take Putin out, slip out of the Kremlin, have vehicles to take them to get away helos, and not get caught to trigger a war vs Russia. Easy peasy.

You would think for your affinity for Trump, you'd recognize hyperbole by now.

Kinda serious about Mossad - they're sneaky fuckers.

[houndawg]

Dad pants for dad humor.

I mean….I don’t like to brag….but he DID ask…

there's the old Z!

Putin has made a terrible miscalculation and set up Biden for the history books as a great statesman...note that I didn't say he is one, you may be too young to remember The Nearsighted Mr. Magoo but thats whats going to happen here: NATO has never been more unified, even the Dutch, Germans, and Swedes are sending weapons and the final nail will be when Switzerland drops the banking hammer, which I'd wager is going to happen soon. Just like Mr. Magoo walking through a construction site without noticing the half dozen fatal accidents that just missed him Biden will come out looking like fucking Winston Churchill through no fault of his own

[∞∞∞]

Yeah, we wouldn’t want to be too provacative to Russia. I guess last year Biden was too busy arming the Taliban..

You realize the article is about frustrations about delays? I personally think Biden should have sent it immediately, but I can also understand they didn't want to provoke Russia as there was no indication of an actual invasion yet.

You know what eventually happened? They sent the aid anyways: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/19/10740200 ... mid-crisis

Your boy changed the GOP platform regarding Ukraine before getting elected, played footsie with Putin for four years (and still praises him), threatened NATO, extorted Zelensky, then withheld 400 million in aid and got impeached.

And you're doing what? Comparing that to a one month delay in aid. Get real.

[89Hen]

Putin has made a terrible miscalculation and set up Biden for the history books as a great statesman...note that I didn't say he is one, you may be too young to remember The Nearsighted Mr. Magoo but thats whats going to happen here: NATO has never been more unified, even the Dutch, Germans, and Swedes are sending weapons and the final nail will be when Switzerland drops the banking hammer, which I'd wager is going to happen soon. Just like Mr. Magoo walking through a construction site without noticing the half dozen fatal accidents that just missed him Biden will come out looking like fucking Winston Churchill through no fault of his own

I disagree. It will be seen as a NATO victory in spite of the US.

[BDKJMU]

We are entering a very dangerous time here. EU is claiming it will send fighters, we and Germany are sending weapons, volunteers from NATO countries including the US are moving into Ukraine…

Something is very wrong with Putin and we need to be very careful how these actions get publicized. The guy literally used fantastical storytelling to concoct a justification for this invasion. We can help Ukraine but it needs to be much quieter. Putin really is unhinged and it wouldn’t take much for him to do something that would invoke the NATO charter. After that all bets are off


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Adolf Putin

[CID1990]

I mean….I don’t like to brag….but he DID ask…

there's the old Z!

Putin has made a terrible miscalculation and set up Biden for the history books as a great statesman...note that I didn't say he is one, you may be too young to remember The Nearsighted Mr. Magoo but thats whats going to happen here: NATO has never been more unified, even the Dutch, Germans, and Swedes are sending weapons and the final nail will be when Switzerland drops the banking hammer, which I'd wager is going to happen soon. Just like Mr. Magoo walking through a construction site without noticing the half dozen fatal accidents that just missed him Biden will come out looking like fucking Winston Churchill through no fault of his own

The only world leader who is going to come out of this as heroic is Zelensky.

Biden and the rest of Europe slow-walked sanctions until popular affinity for Zelensky from their respective constituencies emboldened them - particularly Biden and Macron.

Scholz is the only one who came close to having a spine early on.

Biden could still do something to bolster his image at this point but the fact that he is not on TV literally daily means he’s still doddering old Biden. And Snarky Psaki isn’t helping him at all.

“Let me explain for you how diplomacy works.”

LAWL


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[BDKJMU]

Yeah, we wouldn’t want to be too provacative to Russia. I guess last year Biden was too busy arming the Taliban..

You realize the article is about frustrations about delays? I personally think Biden should have sent it immediately, but I can also understand they didn't want to provoke Russia as there was no indication of an actual invasion yet.

You know what eventually happened? They sent the aid anyways: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/19/10740200 ... mid-crisis

Your boy changed the GOP platform regarding Ukraine before getting elected, played footsie with Putin for four years (and still praises him), threatened NATO, extorted Zelensky, then withheld 400 million in aid and got impeached.

And you're doing what? Comparing that to a one month delay in aid. Get real.

One month delay? Biden was slow rolling aid the entire year.

The Biden administration followed a similar logic in April when holding up military aid to Ukraine that was eventually delivered to Kyiv after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky visited Washington in August.

[BDKJMU]

Throw in one more primary military tactic: Every war Russia has EVER fought has been one of attrition. It’s never been about stellar battlefield tactics, technical superiority or moral high ground. They eventually overwhelm their opponents with massive numbers. It’s the way they’ve fought for 200+ years.

Aren't most of those wars of attrition like Napoleonic and and WW2 defensive wars? They allow the climate, terrain and distance work against their enemies and then overwhelm with any citizen that can carry a gun (or ammo)?

That is a good point.

[BDKJMU]

We are entering a very dangerous time here. EU is claiming it will send fighters, we and Germany are sending weapons, volunteers from NATO countries including the US are moving into Ukraine…

Something is very wrong with Putin and we need to be very careful how these actions get publicized. The guy literally used fantastical storytelling to concoct a justification for this invasion. We can help Ukraine but it needs to be much quieter. Putin really is unhinged and it wouldn’t take much for him to do something that would invoke the NATO charter. After that all bets are off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's escalating for sure. Putin isn't backing down. Does anyone NOT think they'll try to kill Zelensky at the "peace" talk today? Today's talk will go like this:

Russia - Surrender Ukraine, surrender yourself and we'll end hostilities.
Ukraine - Go fuck, yourself.


Nobody truly believes there will be any compromise, do they? Zelensky isn't going to give up 1 sq inch of Ukrainian soil and Russia isn't going to slink away in defeat.

Speaking of ‘Go Fuck Yourself’ has it already been posted that the 13 being allegedly killed is now allegedly Fake News?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60554959.amp

[kalm]

The US should have been leading the charge months ago for a sanctions tripwire to automatically trigger removal from SWIFT and energy sanctions the moment Russian tanks rolled across the border, not getting it done 3 days AFTER the invasion started (too late to be a deterrence to invade). And still no energy sanctions. The other sanctions ate peanuts conpared to SWIFT and energy.

The invasion started in 2014. It was a failure of two Presidential policies (Obama and Trump). Presidencies don't happen in vacuums...Biden can't just come along and undo years of policy and bureaucracy. You can criticize him for not doing more, but let's not revise history.

You're also forgetting this (article from 2017):

President Trump may have been involved with a change to the Republican Party campaign platform last year that watered down support for U.S. assistance to Ukraine, according to new information from someone who was involved.

Diana Denman, a Republican delegate who supported arming U.S. allies in Ukraine, has told people that Trump aide J.D. Gordon said at the Republican Convention in 2016 that Trump directed him to support weakening that position in the official platform.

Ultimately, the softer position was adopted.

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/04/56831079 ... ne-support

BTW, it's a policy still adopted by the official GOP platform...

[BDKJMU]

You mean after Biden did extort Zelensky?

Trump did attempt to extort Zelensky. The transcript is pretty damn clear on that.

So did Biden. The video of Biden bragging about it is pretty damn clear on that.

[BDKJMU]

You mean after Biden did extort Zelensky?

LOL at the Right-wing fantasy. Trump is the one that tried to extort Zelensky to make up dirt on Hunter Biden. Pathetic that the GOP creates messes, then blames the Democrats.

[Ibanez]

Trump did attempt to extort Zelensky. The transcript is pretty damn clear on that.

So did Biden. The video of Biden bragging about it is pretty damn clear on that.

I'm glad to see you admit that Trump and Biden BOTH tried to extort the Ukrainians.

[Ibanez]

It's escalating for sure. Putin isn't backing down. Does anyone NOT think they'll try to kill Zelensky at the "peace" talk today? Today's talk will go like this:

Russia - Surrender Ukraine, surrender yourself and we'll end hostilities.
Ukraine - Go fuck, yourself.


Nobody truly believes there will be any compromise, do they? Zelensky isn't going to give up 1 sq inch of Ukrainian soil and Russia isn't going to slink away in defeat.

Speaking of ‘Go Fuck Yourself’ has it already been posted that the 13 being allegedly killed is now allegedly Fake News?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60554959.amp

The Meme Wars suffer another tragedy

[Baldy]

Oh, how soon they forget. The timing of this seems very interesting as well.

Democrats defeat GOP sanctions on Russian gas pipeline

WASHINGTON -- Senate Democrats on Thursday defeated a bill by Texas Republican Ted Cruz that would have slammed sanctions on businesses involved in a Russian natural gas pipeline to Germany, denouncing it as a GOP political gesture that would have harmed relations with European allies.

The vote on Cruz's measure sanctioning operators of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline was 55-44, short of the 60 it needed to pass. While opposition from the Democratic-controlled House and President Joe Biden meant it had little chance of success, Republicans used the opportunity to portray Democrats as timid in standing up to Russian President Vladimir Putin, whose troops are massed along Ukraine's borders as he demands concessions from the West.

Putin “can smell the weakness,” Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., said before the vote. “Stopping this pipeline should be an area of bipartisan agreement.”

“This bill isn't going to help Ukraine,” Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., countered. “It's designed to hurt” Biden.

A handful of Democrats joined Republicans in voting for the measure.

The new natural gas pipeline, which is awaiting final approval from German and European officials before it goes into operation, has been a particular focus of attention as the U.S. and its European allies try to build a package of deterrents strong enough to stop Putin from invading Ukraine.

Ukraine has angered Putin by seeking closer ties with the West. Putin insists he has no plans to invade, but is demanding concessions from NATO that the allies say they will never grant.

The Biden administration and its supporters in Congress argue Cruz's bill would have harmed relations with Germany, which like much of Europe is dependent on imported natural gas, at a time when the U.S. is seeking to present a united front against Putin over Ukraine.

[AZGrizFan]

He IS savvy, from the standpoint of knowing that a weak, ineffective Biden administration was a prime time to pounce. what he probably DIDN’T account for was the reaction of the REST of the world (or the Ukrainian people, for that matter).

Condoleeza Rice disagrees with you - she thinks Biden is doing great leading the Western response, pressing Europe (especially Germany) on sanctions.

Funny. I read Condie’s latest statement and saw nothing like that. Please post the link.

[BDKJMU]

62 percent of voters say Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if Trump were president: poll

… A majority of Americans polled — 59 percent — also said they believed that the Russian president moved on Ukraine because Putin saw weakness in President Biden…..

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... trump?rl=1

[houndawg]

It's escalating for sure. Putin isn't backing down. Does anyone NOT think they'll try to kill Zelensky at the "peace" talk today? Today's talk will go like this:

Russia - Surrender Ukraine, surrender yourself and we'll end hostilities.
Ukraine - Go fuck, yourself.


Nobody truly believes there will be any compromise, do they? Zelensky isn't going to give up 1 sq inch of Ukrainian soil and Russia isn't going to slink away in defeat.

Speaking of ‘Go Fuck Yourself’ has it already been posted that the 13 being allegedly killed is now allegedly Fake News?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60554959.amp

You mad bro?

[Baldy]

[houndawg]

You realize the article is about frustrations about delays? I personally think Biden should have sent it immediately, but I can also understand they didn't want to provoke Russia as there was no indication of an actual invasion yet.

You know what eventually happened? They sent the aid anyways: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/19/10740200 ... mid-crisis

Your boy changed the GOP platform regarding Ukraine before getting elected, played footsie with Putin for four years (and still praises him), threatened NATO, extorted Zelensky, then withheld 400 million in aid and got impeached.

And you're doing what? Comparing that to a one month delay in aid. Get real.

One month delay? Biden was slow rolling aid the entire year.

The Biden administration followed a similar logic in April when holding up military aid to Ukraine that was eventually delivered to Kyiv after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky visited Washington in August.

I think the Kurds can sympathize

[UNI88]

So did Biden. The video of Biden bragging about it is pretty damn clear on that.

I'm glad to see you admit that Trump and Biden BOTH tried to extort the Ukrainians.

But Biden was successful where Trump failed?

[SeattleGriz]

LOL at the Right-wing fantasy. Trump is the one that tried to extort Zelensky to make up dirt on Hunter Biden. Pathetic that the GOP creates messes, then blames the Democrats.

I'll have to summarize, but you see that NOW a letter just was found that shows the US praising the guy Biden canned? Funny how stuff always comes up after the fact. Ooops. We were told there were "concerns" and now we find out that was bullshit, but we all knew.