The Ukraine Crisis

[kalm]

Swastikas aren't necessary. Read the article you posted earlier about Russians fighting fascism.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Of course they’re not. This was just a snarky tweet.

[SDHornet]

Ukraine has bigger problems on their hands as the Russians are currently in a pincer move on the Donbas and gaining territory daily and have amassed significant forces in the south to make moves there.

You've been giddy about the Donbas pincer for a couple of months. Russia has abandoned Kyiv to apply more pressure. And??

I thought 45k Ukrainians we're about to be surrounded at the end of Feb?

Still no?

Giddy? Naw. Anyone with a brain knew Ukraine had no chance at a conventional war without US/NATO boots on the ground or enforcement of a no fly zone against Russia. The only people surprised are the people that bought into the "Ukraine is winning" narratives. The longer this draws on, the weaker hand Ukraine has in negotiations with Russia.

Better question you should be asking is who is encouraging Ukraine to fight on and why.

[SDHornet]

[SDHornet]

Hhmmm...

[SDHornet]

Well, he’s retired military, was a SERE instructor, etc., so I’d say he’s a lot more capable than you.

That would be a valid point if I were over there. Let's just hope he's cosplaying in western Ukraine, stays out of the way, and doesn't get anyone hurt.

Saw that he said he's "too valuable" to be sent to the front.

Also this:

[Ibanez]

Anecdotal evidence so take it for what it's worth:

Had dinner this past Saturday with 2 people are are hardcore MAGA - probably make BDK look like AOC. We successfully avoided politics all night until the husband brought up Ukraine and said that according to the NYT, they're so corrupt and deserve to be invaded. When I asked if the NYT is trustworthy, they said no but in this case, the NYT is right. When asked if I had the right to walk onto her property and kill her, she said no. When asked why it's different with Russia, she said it's because of the Nazis and Jews. When asked if the USA could invade Canada b/c we don't like who Canada is friends with, they said we could. I know for a fact that these people have Fox News on 24/7 and have attended MAGA rallies in the past. It was quite an experience and they seemed to have no problem saying a source was " corrupt and full of Jews that can't be trusted" and then use that source as a basis for "fact."

[kalm]

Nice bit of propaganda there commrade!

[AZGrizFan]

Anecdotal evidence so take it for what it's worth:

Had dinner this past Saturday with 2 people are are hardcore MAGA - probably make BDK look like AOC. We successfully avoided politics all night until the husband brought up Ukraine and said that according to the NYT, they're so corrupt and deserve to be invaded. When I asked if the NYT is trustworthy, they said no but in this case, the NYT is right. When asked if I had the right to walk onto her property and kill her, she said no. When asked why it's different with Russia, she said it's because of the Nazis and Jews. When asked if the USA could invade Canada b/c we don't like who Canada is friends with, they said we could. I know for a fact that these people have Fox News on 24/7 and have attended MAGA rallies in the past. It was quite an experience and they seemed to have no problem saying a source was " corrupt and full of Jews that can't be trusted" and then use that source as a basis for "fact."

I know hundreds of “MAGA’s” and not one thinks like that. That’s not MAGA, that’s delusional.

[kalm]

Anecdotal evidence so take it for what it's worth:

Had dinner this past Saturday with 2 people are are hardcore MAGA - probably make BDK look like AOC. We successfully avoided politics all night until the husband brought up Ukraine and said that according to the NYT, they're so corrupt and deserve to be invaded. When I asked if the NYT is trustworthy, they said no but in this case, the NYT is right. When asked if I had the right to walk onto her property and kill her, she said no. When asked why it's different with Russia, she said it's because of the Nazis and Jews. When asked if the USA could invade Canada b/c we don't like who Canada is friends with, they said we could. I know for a fact that these people have Fox News on 24/7 and have attended MAGA rallies in the past. It was quite an experience and they seemed to have no problem saying a source was " corrupt and full of Jews that can't be trusted" and then use that source as a basis for "fact."

I know hundreds of “MAGA’s” and not one thinks like that. That’s not MAGA, that’s delusional.

That was literally MAGA’s take until Trump and others softened their views. And there are receipts.

[AZGrizFan]

I know hundreds of “MAGA’s” and not one thinks like that. That’s not MAGA, that’s delusional.

That was literally MAGA’s take until Trump and others softened their views. And there are receipts.

I’m not saying people like that don’t exist, but they’re the other end of the barbell to people like AOC, Omar and Tlaib, ANTIFA and BLM. There’s about $2 trillion in receipts of THEIR damage. The vast majority of MAGA’s are peaceful people who just want to be left alone.

[kalm]

That was literally MAGA’s take until Trump and others softened their views. And there are receipts.

I’m not saying people like that don’t exist, but they’re the other end of the barbell to people like AOC, Omar and Tlaib, ANTIFA and BLM. There’s about $2 trillion in receipts of THEIR damage. The vast majority of MAGA’s are peaceful people who just want to be left alone.

Ok.

[kalm]

I hate to say it from loss of life and war is bad standpoint, but I think this guy is right.

[AZGrizFan]

I hate to say it from loss of life and war is bad standpoint, but I think this guy is right.

#7: There’s no WAY the governments of Europe, who are hooked on Russian oil like crack, will every agree to a point where Russia is put completely back in the bottle
#9: “A powerful and united Western Block”, paid for almost exclusively with AMERICAN dollars, defended by AMERICAN troops, while those quasi-socialist countries spend their money on giveaways to their people and ours are left holding the financial (and ultimately) military bag. No thanks.

[Baldy]

That would be a valid point if I were over there. Let's just hope he's cosplaying in western Ukraine, stays out of the way, and doesn't get anyone hurt.

Saw that he said he's "too valuable" to be sent to the front.

Also this:

Malcolm Nance is a fraud.

[HI54UNI]

I hate to say it from loss of life and war is bad standpoint, but I think this guy is right.

You ready to send your sons to Ukraine to die for the Europeans?

[SeattleGriz]

I know hundreds of “MAGA’s” and not one thinks like that. That’s not MAGA, that’s delusional.

That was literally MAGA’s take until Trump and others softened their views. And there are receipts.

Like this instance?

[SDHornet]

I hate to say it from loss of life and war is bad standpoint, but I think this guy is right.

Stopped reading when he tried to downplay Stalin as being "opportunistic" compared to Putin in his 3rd post. Both are evil, but Stalin has a much higher body count and invaded/occupied much more territory than Putin could even dream of.

[SDHornet]

Nice bit of propaganda there commrade!

Tell that to the western media.

[SDHornet]

Why do you keep throwing out this straw man? At least you’ve acknowledged that war crimes against civilians are happening so I guess that’s a start

Nobody is sending our troops to Ukraine. It has been said over and over that we are releasing intelligence to try to pre-empt Putin from using chemical weapons. Before, it was to try to pre-empt him from using a false flag to invade in the first place.

Nobody is trying to get us into a shooting war with Russia except retired or unemployed talking heads on CNN with zero policy pull.


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Yeah let's let the retards in Congress do whatever they can to start WWIII. Anyone with a brain knew it would come to something like this. But I'm sure the IC will no doubt confirm whatever "gas attack" happens is tied to Russia. They tried this in Syria and failed. They'll try it again in Ukraine, and there will be idiots out there that fall for it and jump on the warmongering bandwagon because "muh IC said so".

[SDHornet]

So then the Putin narratives on this being a war against the West were legitimate? Or nah? As if we didn't have IC folks over there since the coup in '14.

Yet in just over nine weeks, the conflict has rapidly evolved into a full proxy war with Russia, with global ramifications. U.S. officials now frame America’s role in more ambitious terms that border on aggressive. The goal—backed by tens of billions of dollars in aid—is to “weaken” Russia and insure a sovereign Ukraine outlasts Putin. “Throughout our history, we’ve learned that when dictators do not pay the price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and engage in more aggression,” the President told reporters on Thursday. “They keep moving. And the costs, the threats to America and the world, keep rising.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... as-war-too

[kalm]

I hate to say it from loss of life and war is bad standpoint, but I think this guy is right.

You ready to send your sons to Ukraine to die for the Europeans?

We’re not there yet and hopefully don’t get any closer. So the answer is of course no.

[kalm]

So then the Putin narratives on this being a war against the West were legitimate? Or nah? As if we didn't have IC folks over there since the coup in '14.

Yet in just over nine weeks, the conflict has rapidly evolved into a full proxy war with Russia, with global ramifications. U.S. officials now frame America’s role in more ambitious terms that border on aggressive. The goal—backed by tens of billions of dollars in aid—is to “weaken” Russia and insure a sovereign Ukraine outlasts Putin. “Throughout our history, we’ve learned that when dictators do not pay the price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and engage in more aggression,” the President told reporters on Thursday. “They keep moving. And the costs, the threats to America and the world, keep rising.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... as-war-too

What part of this do you think is untrue? Btw, an equally strong case can be made that this wasn’t about NATO encroachment. Was NATO begging for new members? Or were Russia’s neighbors pragmatically asking to join to prevent against a neighbor with a track record?

[SDHornet]

So then the Putin narratives on this being a war against the West were legitimate? Or nah? As if we didn't have IC folks over there since the coup in '14.



https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... as-war-too

What part of this do you think is untrue? Btw, an equally strong case can be made that this wasn’t about NATO encroachment. Was NATO begging for new members? Or were Russia’s neighbors pragmatically asking to join to prevent against a neighbor with a track record?

We were told that this being a proxy war with Russia wasn't really a thing as Putin was using that to sell the war to Russia. Now the legacy media is confirming it.

I think the West dabbling in Ukraine couple with Putin's revanchism absolutely led us to this point. The US/West wanted/has a puppet government to push the issue against Russia. Putin saw weakness and pressed his invasion. My fear are the unknown backroom promises were made to this corrupt Ukrainian government, and how deep are we going to get into it. So far we're $33B in the hole, at what point does this become not worth it? Clearly the sanctions have not worked so not really sure what the end game is for the West in this one.

Unfortunately rhetoric is trending towards getting US/NATO boots on the ground in this one. At that point we could call this WWIII.

[kalm]

What part of this do you think is untrue? Btw, an equally strong case can be made that this wasn’t about NATO encroachment. Was NATO begging for new members? Or were Russia’s neighbors pragmatically asking to join to prevent against a neighbor with a track record?

We were told that this being a proxy war with Russia wasn't really a thing as Putin was using that to sell the war to Russia. Now the legacy media is confirming it.

I think the West dabbling in Ukraine couple with Putin's revanchism absolutely led us to this point. The US/West wanted/has a puppet government to push the issue against Russia. Putin saw weakness and pressed his invasion. My fear are the unknown backroom promises were made to this corrupt Ukrainian government, and how deep are we going to get into it. So far we're $33B in the hole, at what point does this become not worth it? Clearly the sanctions have not worked so not really sure what the end game is for the West in this one.

Unfortunately rhetoric is trending towards getting US/NATO boots on the ground in this one. At that point we could call this WWIII.

Zallensky ran on an anti-corruption campaign. Probably because of the likes of Hunter Biden and Paul Manafort.

All wars are proxy wars until. The concern here from the very start was greater conflict compromising NATO members and dragging us in.

One man started this war and one man can stop it from spreading.

[SDHornet]

We were told that this being a proxy war with Russia wasn't really a thing as Putin was using that to sell the war to Russia. Now the legacy media is confirming it.

I think the West dabbling in Ukraine couple with Putin's revanchism absolutely led us to this point. The US/West wanted/has a puppet government to push the issue against Russia. Putin saw weakness and pressed his invasion. My fear are the unknown backroom promises were made to this corrupt Ukrainian government, and how deep are we going to get into it. So far we're $33B in the hole, at what point does this become not worth it? Clearly the sanctions have not worked so not really sure what the end game is for the West in this one.

Unfortunately rhetoric is trending towards getting US/NATO boots on the ground in this one. At that point we could call this WWIII.

Zallensky ran on an anti-corruption campaign. Probably because of the likes of Hunter Biden and Paul Manafort.

All wars are proxy wars until. The concern here from the very start was greater conflict compromising NATO members and dragging us in.

One man started this war and one man can stop it from spreading.

Running on an anti-corruption platform is just rhetoric. I don't think we were dragged into anything, we chose to be there. The question now is how much more of "us" will be dragged into it.

When did this war start, and by whom?