The Ukraine Crisis

[UNI88]

There was no coup. There was an election. An election that the pro-Russian candidate lost. Maine doesn't get to invite in Mounties and join Canada because Clinton lost the 2016 election and Texas doesn't get to invite in Mexican troops and join Mexico because trump lost the 2020 election. Crimea doesn't get to invite in Spetnaz and join the Russian Nazi Federation because Yanukovych lost.

You push the Ukrainian Nazi red herring like kalm pushes the trump is a fascist red herring.

Thought you were all for self determination? People who are treated like shit because they live on the Russian border don't get to live in peace?

It's a whole lot more nuanced than that.

If Russia was only trying to help Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk why did they invade into areas where the people didn't want them? Why did the Russians mount that abysmal failure of a drive toward Kiev?

If it's ok for Russia to subjugate people that want to be Ukrainian in order to "protect" people who want to be Russian why isn't it ok for Ukraine to subjugate people that want to be Russian in order to "protect" people who want to be Ukrainian?

What the Ukrainians might have done in Donetsk and Luhansk pales in comparison to the pain and suffering that Russia has inflicted upon the Ukrainian people.

You give Putin and Russia all sorts of flexibility to protect Russians and Russian sympathizers and don't seem to give a shit when they subjugate, injure and murder people that want to be free of Russia. Intentionally targeting civilians is murder, Putin should be tried at the Hague. You keep carrying that war criminal's water. He's kind of like Pol Pot, a lower-level Hitler or Stalin.

[SeattleGriz]

Uh huh. I'm amazed how someone who lives in America is 100% right, but all those that live in Europe and have differing opinions can be so wrong. I'm glad you fully believe everything you are told by our government and media.

Oh, so there were no Russian paramilitary forces operating in the eastern Ukraine for the past decade with the goal of destabilizing the region and laying the groundwork for the military invasion that followed? Or do you just turn a blind eye to that? You surely can't be that much of a tool and a bot, no?

Oh. You mean Russia was doing what America does?!? Well beings we keep hearing about the American rules based order in which they simply get to make up the rules, I'm sure it's okay.

[SeattleGriz]

Thought you were all for self determination? People who are treated like shit because they live on the Russian border don't get to live in peace?

It's a whole lot more nuanced than that.

If Russia was only trying to help Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk why did they invade into areas where the people didn't want them? Why did the Russians mount that abysmal failure of a drive toward Kiev?

If it's ok for Russia to subjugate people that want to be Ukrainian in order to "protect" people who want to be Russian why isn't it ok for Ukraine to subjugate people that want to be Russian in order to "protect" people who want to be Ukrainian?

What the Ukrainians might have done in Donetsk and Luhansk pales in comparison to the pain and suffering that Russia has inflicted upon the Ukrainian people.

You give Putin and Russia all sorts of flexibility to protect Russians and Russian sympathizers and don't seem to give a shit when they subjugate, injure and murder people that want to be free of Russia. Intentionally targeting civilians is murder, Putin should be tried at the Hague. You keep carrying that war criminal's water. He's kind of like Pol Pot, a lower-level Hitler or Stalin.

The people in those areas wanted the Russians. What do you think has been happening in the Donbass since 2014? Ukraine has been indiscriminately shelling the civilians.

Did you not hear Fat Hillary, Angela Merkel, a couple weeks ago admit the Minsk agreement was simply for buying time?

The US has been pushing to "get Russia" since around 2001. Putin simply saw what was going on because our neocons are idiots and beat them to the punch.

Look at our track record. Ain't so great. That should tell you something.

[UNI88]

It's a whole lot more nuanced than that.

If Russia was only trying to help Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk why did they invade into areas where the people didn't want them? Why did the Russians mount that abysmal failure of a drive toward Kiev?

If it's ok for Russia to subjugate people that want to be Ukrainian in order to "protect" people who want to be Russian why isn't it ok for Ukraine to subjugate people that want to be Russian in order to "protect" people who want to be Ukrainian?

What the Ukrainians might have done in Donetsk and Luhansk pales in comparison to the pain and suffering that Russia has inflicted upon the Ukrainian people.

You give Putin and Russia all sorts of flexibility to protect Russians and Russian sympathizers and don't seem to give a shit when they subjugate, injure and murder people that want to be free of Russia. Intentionally targeting civilians is murder, Putin should be tried at the Hague. You keep carrying that war criminal's water. He's kind of like Pol Pot, a lower-level Hitler or Stalin.

The people in those areas wanted the Russians. What do you think has been happening in the Donbass since 2014? Ukraine has been indiscriminately shelling the civilians.

Did you not hear Fat Hillary, Angela Merkel, a couple weeks ago admit the Minsk agreement was simply for buying time?

The US has been pushing to "get Russia" since around 2001. Putin simply saw what was going on because our neocons are idiots and beat them to the punch.

Look at our track record. Ain't so great. That should tell you something.

The people of Kiev wanted Russians? The people of Kherson, Mariupol. etc. wanted the Russians so badly that they're ok with Russia bombing the crap out of them? The Russian response to Ukraine indiscriminately shelling civilians in a targeted area is to ... indiscriminately shell civilians throughout Ukraine with cluster munitions, bombs, missiles, artillery shells, rockets and drones?

Fat Hillary? I love it when trump supporters try to body shame his opponents. Pot calling the kettle black.



His caboose is bigger than Michelle Obama's.

[SeattleGriz]

The people in those areas wanted the Russians. What do you think has been happening in the Donbass since 2014? Ukraine has been indiscriminately shelling the civilians.

Did you not hear Fat Hillary, Angela Merkel, a couple weeks ago admit the Minsk agreement was simply for buying time?

The US has been pushing to "get Russia" since around 2001. Putin simply saw what was going on because our neocons are idiots and beat them to the punch.

Look at our track record. Ain't so great. That should tell you something.

The people of Kiev wanted Russians? The people of Kherson, Mariupol. etc. wanted the Russians so badly that they're ok with Russia bombing the crap out of them? The Russian response to Ukraine indiscriminately shelling civilians in a targeted area is to ... indiscriminately shell civilians throughout Ukraine with cluster munitions, bombs, missiles, artillery shells, rockets and drones?

Fat Hillary? I love it when trump supporters try to body shame his opponents. Pot calling the kettle black.



His caboose is bigger than Michelle Obama's.

Don't you see that Russia is rooting out terrorism that is being inflicted on the ethnic Russians on the eastern border? Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette and occasionally drone strike an innocent man with a family of 8 getting water to stop the terrorism.

In regards to Fat Hillary, she was fatter than Hillary and a Trump is fat too.

[BDKJMU]

There was no coup. There was an election. An election that the pro-Russian candidate lost. Maine doesn't get to invite in Mounties and join Canada because Clinton lost the 2016 election and Texas doesn't get to invite in Mexican troops and join Mexico because trump lost the 2020 election. Crimea doesn't get to invite in Spetnaz and join the Russian Nazi Federation because Yanukovych lost.

You push the Ukrainian Nazi red herring like kalm pushes the trump is a fascist red herring.

Rest assured there’s good people on both sides.

The ‘there are good people on both sides’ was in reference to the debate on whether certain long standing (early-mid 1900s) Confederate Civil War statues should be removed from certain public spaces. There were and are good people on both sides of that debate. Just like there were, and are, bad people on both sides of that debate.

[kalm]

Rest assured there’s good people on both sides.

The ‘there are good people on both sides’ was in reference to the debate on whether certain long standing (early-mid 1900s) Confederate Civil War statues should be removed from certain public spaces. There were and are good people on both sides of that debate. Just like there were, and are, bad people on both sides of that debate.

It was at press conference and directly related to reporters questions regarding the violence at Charlottesville.

[UNI88]

The people of Kiev wanted Russians? The people of Kherson, Mariupol. etc. wanted the Russians so badly that they're ok with Russia bombing the crap out of them? The Russian response to Ukraine indiscriminately shelling civilians in a targeted area is to ... indiscriminately shell civilians throughout Ukraine with cluster munitions, bombs, missiles, artillery shells, rockets and drones?

Fat Hillary? I love it when trump supporters try to body shame his opponents. Pot calling the kettle black.



His caboose is bigger than Michelle Obama's.

Don't you see that Russia is rooting out terrorism that is being inflicted on the ethnic Russians on the eastern border? Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette and occasionally drone strike an innocent man with a family of 8 getting water to stop the terrorism.

In regards to Fat Hillary, she was fatter than Hillary and a Trump is fat too.

"Terrorism that is being inflicted on the ethnic Russians on the eastern border" ... That might have been oppression but it wasn't terrorism. Stopping terrorism or oppression is just another weak excuse that Russia and their apologists use to try and justify an illegal and immoral invasion. The scope of Russia's attack goes far beyond stopping some delusion of terrorism or even oppression.

If stopping terrorism or even oppression justifies an invasion then:
- Israel could invade Russia for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on Jews.
- A coalition of Muslim countries could invade China for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on Uyghurs.
- China could invade the US for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on ethnic Chinese (racist attacks due to Corona Virus).
- Mexico could invade Arizona for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on ethnic Mexicans.

The arguments you're picking up in those right-wing echo chambers are logically weak.

[BDKJMU]

The ‘there are good people on both sides’ was in reference to the debate on whether certain long standing (early-mid 1900s) Confederate Civil War statues should be removed from certain public spaces. There were and are good people on both sides of that debate. Just like there were, and are, bad people on both sides of that debate.

It was at press conference and directly related to reporters questions regarding the violence at Charlottesville.

It was also brought up during that press conference that the debate over the statues had been ongoing for a while. There had been people during the summer, including that weekend, in and outside of Charlottesville, debating and protesting (peacefully) the keeping and removal of Confederate statues.

[SeattleGriz]

Don't you see that Russia is rooting out terrorism that is being inflicted on the ethnic Russians on the eastern border? Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette and occasionally drone strike an innocent man with a family of 8 getting water to stop the terrorism.

In regards to Fat Hillary, she was fatter than Hillary and a Trump is fat too.

"Terrorism that is being inflicted on the ethnic Russians on the eastern border" ... That might have been oppression but it wasn't terrorism. Stopping terrorism or oppression is just another weak excuse that Russia and their apologists use to try and justify an illegal and immoral invasion. The scope of Russia's attack goes far beyond stopping some delusion of terrorism or even oppression.

If stopping terrorism or even oppression justifies an invasion then:
- Israel could invade Russia for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on Jews.
- A coalition of Muslim countries could invade China for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on Uyghurs.
- China could invade the US for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on ethnic Chinese (racist attacks due to Corona Virus).
- Mexico could invade Arizona for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on ethnic Mexicans.

The arguments you're picking up in those right-wing echo chambers are logically weak.

You missed my point. How many countries has the US invaded using the "war in terror"? That's the excuse we've used multiple times. How did those countries wind up? In a much better place?

My point is the establishment politicians in the US dont get to do something and then totally change the rules for everyone else when it suits their needs.

[kalm]

"Terrorism that is being inflicted on the ethnic Russians on the eastern border" ... That might have been oppression but it wasn't terrorism. Stopping terrorism or oppression is just another weak excuse that Russia and their apologists use to try and justify an illegal and immoral invasion. The scope of Russia's attack goes far beyond stopping some delusion of terrorism or even oppression.

If stopping terrorism or even oppression justifies an invasion then:
- Israel could invade Russia for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on Jews.
- A coalition of Muslim countries could invade China for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on Uyghurs.
- China could invade the US for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on ethnic Chinese (racist attacks due to Corona Virus).
- Mexico could invade Arizona for oppressing/inflicting terrorism on ethnic Mexicans.

The arguments you're picking up in those right-wing echo chambers are logically weak.

You missed my point. How many countries has the US invaded using the "war in terror"? That's the excuse we've used multiple times. How did those countries wind up? In a much better place?

My point is the establishment politicians in the US dont get to do something and then totally change the rules for everyone else when it suits their needs.

So previous mistakes precludes one from doing the right thing now?

That’s a strange philosophy.

[SeattleGriz]

You missed my point. How many countries has the US invaded using the "war in terror"? That's the excuse we've used multiple times. How did those countries wind up? In a much better place?

My point is the establishment politicians in the US dont get to do something and then totally change the rules for everyone else when it suits their needs.

So previous mistakes precludes one from doing the right thing now?

That’s a strange philosophy.

What are we doing over in Syria? Are we doing the right thing now?

Can't you see how the US keeps trotting out the "rules based order" to mean, the US gets to make the rules. What happened to international law? Why aren't we using that phrase?

I've said it many times. I'm for trying to spread our way of life around the globe, but when those calling the shots are dipshits, it shows in how the rest of the world views the US. We are not liked, nor respected in many countries.

[GannonFan]

You missed my point. How many countries has the US invaded using the "war in terror"? That's the excuse we've used multiple times. How did those countries wind up? In a much better place?

My point is the establishment politicians in the US dont get to do something and then totally change the rules for everyone else when it suits their needs.

So previous mistakes precludes one from doing the right thing now?

That’s a strange philosophy.

And at no time did we invade one of those countries with the goal of absorbing those countries into our own in some vain pursuit of empire building. So no, what Russia is doing today is not the equivalent of what the US has done before.

[SeattleGriz]

So previous mistakes precludes one from doing the right thing now?

That’s a strange philosophy.

And at no time did we invade one of those countries with the goal of absorbing those countries into our own in some vain pursuit of empire building. So no, what Russia is doing today is not the equivalent of what the US has done before.

Boy, Russia is sure doing a terrible job at empire building with as evil and aggressive as you make them out to be.

Have you ever considered the fact that if the geography of the US and Russia were swapped, the US without a doubt would use military intervention to prevent encroachment on the US?

Since Kalm hasn't answered. Why are we over in Syria and what justification did we use to start our military operations there?

[houndawg]

And yet you're quiet on Russians crossing the border and causing most of those people to be treated like shit and not live in peace. But no worries, most of those people have been casualties in the Russian aggression that you fully support so many of those folks are now resting in peace. I'm sure you consider that to be a success as long as the correct flag is flying over their graves.

Uh huh. I'm amazed how someone who lives in America is 100% right, but all those that live in Europe and have differing opinions can be so wrong. I'm glad you fully believe everything you are told by our government and media.

I'm amazed that you have nothing to say about Putin deliberately targeting civilians, comrade reek.

[houndawg]

And at no time did we invade one of those countries with the goal of absorbing those countries into our own in some vain pursuit of empire building. So no, what Russia is doing today is not the equivalent of what the US has done before.

Boy, Russia is sure doing a terrible job at empire building with as evil and aggressive as you make them out to be.

Have you ever considered the fact that if the geography of the US and Russia were swapped, the US without a doubt would use military intervention to prevent encroachment on the US?

Since Kalm hasn't answered. Why are we over in Syria and what justification did we use to start our military operations there?

Have you ever considered how much time you spend looking like a joke here, comrade?

[SeattleGriz]

Boy, Russia is sure doing a terrible job at empire building with as evil and aggressive as you make them out to be.

Have you ever considered the fact that if the geography of the US and Russia were swapped, the US without a doubt would use military intervention to prevent encroachment on the US?

Since Kalm hasn't answered. Why are we over in Syria and what justification did we use to start our military operations there?

Have you ever considered how much time you spend looking like a joke here, comrade?

Coming from the guy who still says Putin blew up his own gas line and the Russians have lost 100k in men is hilarious.

So why are we in Syria. Seems to be a real aversion to answering that question.

[houndawg]

Have you ever considered how much time you spend looking like a joke here, comrade?

Coming from the guy who still says Putin blew up his own gas line and the Russians have lost 100k in men is hilarious.

So why are we in Syria. Seems to be a real aversion to answering that question.

when did I "still says" that?

I thought you proved it was Poland, no?

[houndawg]

Have you ever considered how much time you spend looking like a joke here, comrade?

Coming from the guy who still says Putin blew up his own gas line and the Russians have lost 100k in men is hilarious.

So why are we in Syria. Seems to be a real aversion to answering that question.

Who says we're in Syria?

[SeattleGriz]

Coming from the guy who still says Putin blew up his own gas line and the Russians have lost 100k in men is hilarious.

So why are we in Syria. Seems to be a real aversion to answering that question.

when did I "still says" that?

I thought you proved it was Poland, no?

You've been saying it the whole time. In regards to Poland, you asked me who I thought sabotaged Nord Stream. I said I would guess Poland simply because they hate Russia and aren't real happy with Germany. In the end, whoever did it got assistance and a green light from the US.

[SeattleGriz]

Coming from the guy who still says Putin blew up his own gas line and the Russians have lost 100k in men is hilarious.

So why are we in Syria. Seems to be a real aversion to answering that question.

Who says we're in Syria?

See. We're putting our nose in so many other countries business you can't even keep it straight.

Our justification is:

Syria is perceived as “unable and unwilling” to counter the threat posed by ISIS and al-Qaeda (AQ). According to this theory “a victim state (the United States, on behalf of itself and Iraq) can use force in self-defense against non-state actors located in a different state (Syria) without that state’s consent.” Trump was not shy using force as a part of the “maximum pressure campaign” against Iran and to counter Iranian influence in Syria, describing it as a measure to counter immediate threats to the U.S. In his strategy, Biden has limited the use of immediate threat in favor of “ongoing planning” for future attacks, which actually makes the current American operations even more problematic.

[UNI88]

A Nazi got shot execution style ...

[houndawg]

And yet you're quiet on Russians crossing the border and causing most of those people to be treated like shit and not live in peace. But no worries, most of those people have been casualties in the Russian aggression that you fully support so many of those folks are now resting in peace. I'm sure you consider that to be a success as long as the correct flag is flying over their graves.

Uh huh. I'm amazed how someone who lives in America is 100% right, but all those that live in Europe and have differing opinions can be so wrong. I'm glad you fully believe everything you are told by our government and media.

I'm amazed how someone who lives in America can't stop sucking Russian dick just because its white and christian.

[houndawg]

when did I "still says" that?

I thought you proved it was Poland, no?

You've been saying it the whole time. In regards to Poland, you asked me who I thought sabotaged Nord Stream. I said I would guess Poland simply because they hate Russia and aren't real happy with Germany. In the end, whoever did it got assistance and a green light from the US.

You know this....how?

[SeattleGriz]

Uh huh. I'm amazed how someone who lives in America is 100% right, but all those that live in Europe and have differing opinions can be so wrong. I'm glad you fully believe everything you are told by our government and media.

I'm amazed how someone who lives in America can't stop sucking Russian dick just because its white and christian.

You really think those that keep pushing this slaughter care about Ukraine?