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[kalm]

Isn’t that what you just said?

No, that's what you said.

“Admitting Jesus died for his sins is what gets Trump and EVERYONE into Heaven. It's a really low bar, but wouldn't you expect that from a good God? ”

[UNI88]

SG is just going to pretend this post never happened.

WUT? You asked a bottom line question. What does Trump have to do... and I answered that.

I asked "a bottom line question" because you continued to hammer the "no one gets to heaven through works" argument and said that I was "simply wrong and too uninformed to know any better" and finished up by comparing me to JSO when I posted:

The God is tallying up sins and ranking is a strawman argument but keep pushing it if it makes you feel better. I don't think trump is going to burn in hell because he's a sinner. I think he's going to burn in hell because he is incapable of 1) admitting that he has sinned and 2) accepting that God or any other being is greater than himself.

I then showed how, despite your name-calling and attempts to disparage my understanding of Christianity, my arguments for why trump wouldn't get into heaven lined up with your requirements to get into heaven.

[SeattleGriz]

No, that's what you said.

“Admitting Jesus died for his sins is what gets Trump and EVERYONE into Heaven. It's a really low bar, but wouldn't you expect that from a good God? ”

Gets you into Heaven. Everyone is always free to do whatever they want. There is a distinction.

[kalm]

“Admitting Jesus died for his sins is what gets Trump and EVERYONE into Heaven. It's a really low bar, but wouldn't you expect that from a good God? ”

Gets you into Heaven. Everyone is always free to do whatever they want. There is a distinction.

Thank you for admitting that.

[SeattleGriz]

Gets you into Heaven. Everyone is always free to do whatever they want. There is a distinction.

Thank you for admitting that.

No, I'm pointing out your usual appeal to extremes is a logical fallacy and thus incorrect.

[kalm]

Thank you for admitting that.

No, I'm pointing out your usual appeal to extremes is a logical fallacy and thus incorrect.

I was just clarifying your plain words. What are the extremes?

[SeattleGriz]

No, I'm pointing out your usual appeal to extremes is a logical fallacy and thus incorrect.

I was just clarifying your plain words. What are the extremes?

Sorry, I mixed two different thoughts. I jumped from one thought pattern straight to the extremes without a clear transition.

With that being said, the extremes I am pointing out is that you're implying that a very very small minority of those who accept Christ and live "carte blanche" is representative of the whole, thus, an enabling God.

[kalm]

I was just clarifying your plain words. What are the extremes?

Sorry, I mixed two different thoughts. I jumped from one thought pattern straight to the extremes without a clear transition.

With that being said, the extremes I am pointing out is that you're implying that a very very small minority of those who accept Christ and live "carte blanche" is representative of the whole, thus, an enabling God.

Not at all. The folly lies with man, not with god. Christians are the ones enabling Trump.

[SeattleGriz]

Sorry, I mixed two different thoughts. I jumped from one thought pattern straight to the extremes without a clear transition.

With that being said, the extremes I am pointing out is that you're implying that a very very small minority of those who accept Christ and live "carte blanche" is representative of the whole, thus, an enabling God.

Not at all. The folly lies with man, not with god. Christians are the ones enabling Trump.

How are Christians enabling Trump?

[SeattleGriz]

I've already explained this. No one gets to heaven through works, and that is not in dispute. That is the ONE version I speak of. You keep pulling the judgmental version of Christianity, which no one agrees with, by acting like any one persons salvation may be at risk because they are "especially" evil. You pass judgement like a champ bro, when you yourself are just as guilty of commiting sin. There are no "levels".

I consider myself Protestant and that's all. Do you know who Paul is in the New Testament? His messages pretty much excoriate the churches of the time because they kept focusing on the law, which you keep doing.

You are simply wrong and too uninformed to know any better StUni.

Strawman. That isn’t what I said at all.

You have decided that you know what I believe better than I do. That’s pretty judgmental.

How do you know that what you’ve been taught and believe came from god and not man? What if the gnostics, cathari or some other oppressed sect were correct but their teachings were oppressed by men in the early church because they threatened their power?

I’ll make it simple for you OSgBF - what does a despicable person like trump have to do to get into heaven?

I noticed you conveniently skipped the first time I asked you this question.

What do you believe? Time to go on record.

[UNI88]

Strawman. That isn’t what I said at all.

You have decided that you know what I believe better than I do. That’s pretty judgmental.

How do you know that what you’ve been taught and believe came from god and not man? What if the gnostics, cathari or some other oppressed sect were correct but their teachings were oppressed by men in the early church because they threatened their power?

I’ll make it simple for you OSgBF - what does a despicable person like trump have to do to get into heaven?

I noticed you conveniently skipped the first time I asked you this question.

What do you believe? Time to go on record.

As soon as you admit to being wrong when you said I was "simply wrong and too uninformed to know any better".

[kalm]

Not at all. The folly lies with man, not with god. Christians are the ones enabling Trump.

How are Christians enabling Trump?

Supporting him in any way. He’s the antithesis of what a good Christian should be or look up to for leadership. I sincerely hope you already know all of this.

[SeattleGriz]

I noticed you conveniently skipped the first time I asked you this question.

What do you believe? Time to go on record.

As soon as you admit to being wrong when you said I was "simply wrong and too uninformed to know any better".

I had hopes, but you pulled you again. I'm convinced you just suffer oppositional defiance. So many chances to verbalize your stances, but refuse and I was referring to your top paragraph you conveniently left of your post.

[SeattleGriz]

How are Christians enabling Trump?

Supporting him in any way. He’s the antithesis of what a good Christian should be or look up to for leadership. I sincerely hope you already know all of this.

There you go again. Moralizing on others. You just can't help yourself, can you? First it was everyone was a BAD person because they didn't follow Klam's misled morals on COVID, now moralizing on voters who are looking for someone who will enact governance that benefits them. Like say, three Supreme Court justices that certainly would have been a far cry more conservative than anything Hillary would have nominated. A strong economy, etc.

And then your comment on me "knowing better". See? A total morals scold. You even hate supposed "good Christian" Mike Johnson. No Christian apparently meets your moral high bar. Mr Judgy. Mr Pharisee.

[houndawg]

Supporting him in any way. He’s the antithesis of what a good Christian should be or look up to for leadership. I sincerely hope you already know all of this.

There you go again. Moralizing on others. You just can't help yourself, can you? First it was everyone was a BAD person because they didn't follow Klam's misled morals on COVID, now moralizing on voters who are looking for someone who will enact governance that benefits them. Like say, three Supreme Court justices that certainly would have been a far cry more conservative than anything Hillary would have nominated. A strong economy, etc.

And then your comment on me "knowing better". See? A total morals scold. You even hate supposed "good Christian" Mike Johnson. No Christian apparently meets your moral high bar. Mr Judgy. Mr Pharisee.

Them poor christians....ever the victims.

What a gasbag

[UNI88]

As soon as you admit to being wrong when you said I was "simply wrong and too uninformed to know any better".

I had hopes, but you pulled you again. I'm convinced you just suffer oppositional defiance. So many chances to verbalize your stances, but refuse and I was referring to your top paragraph you conveniently left of your post.

Sure oSGbf. I stated why I thought trump would burn in hell. You're the one who posted that I was wrong and uninformed. I then asked you what trump would have to do to go to heaven. You responded and I took your response and compared it to my reasoning for why trump would burn in hell which lined up almost perfectly with your requirements. I will ask again, was I wrong and uninformed? If yes, how? If no, then it was your statement about me that was wrong.

Speaking of skipping questions, you skipped these - "How do you know that what you’ve been taught and believe came from god and not man? What if the gnostics, cathari or some other oppressed sect were correct but their teachings were oppressed by men in the early church because they threatened their power?" Religions have been corrupted by greedy and ambitious men since the beginning of written history. How do you know that the Christianity that you believe in hasn't also been corrupted?

Don't get all huffy and put off when posters skip your questions when you skip over other poster's questions.

[UNI88]

Supporting him in any way. He’s the antithesis of what a good Christian should be or look up to for leadership. I sincerely hope you already know all of this.

There you go again. Moralizing on others. You just can't help yourself, can you? First it was everyone was a BAD person because they didn't follow Klam's misled morals on COVID, now moralizing on voters who are looking for someone who will enact governance that benefits them. Like say, three Supreme Court justices that certainly would have been a far cry more conservative than anything Hillary would have nominated. A strong economy, etc.

And then your comment on me "knowing better". See? A total morals scold. You even hate supposed "good Christian" Mike Johnson. No Christian apparently meets your moral high bar. Mr Judgy. Mr Pharisee.

So what kalm is doing is just as bad as when people who self-identify as Christians get all judgy and moralizing about drag shows, books about racism or with LGBTQ+ characters/themes, etc?

[SeattleGriz]

There you go again. Moralizing on others. You just can't help yourself, can you? First it was everyone was a BAD person because they didn't follow Klam's misled morals on COVID, now moralizing on voters who are looking for someone who will enact governance that benefits them. Like say, three Supreme Court justices that certainly would have been a far cry more conservative than anything Hillary would have nominated. A strong economy, etc.

And then your comment on me "knowing better". See? A total morals scold. You even hate supposed "good Christian" Mike Johnson. No Christian apparently meets your moral high bar. Mr Judgy. Mr Pharisee.

Them poor christians....ever the victims.

What a gasbag

You're the gasbag.

[SeattleGriz]

I had hopes, but you pulled you again. I'm convinced you just suffer oppositional defiance. So many chances to verbalize your stances, but refuse and I was referring to your top paragraph you conveniently left of your post.

Sure oSGbf. I stated why I thought trump would burn in hell. You're the one who posted that I was wrong and uninformed. I then asked you what trump would have to do to go to heaven. You responded and I took your response and compared it to my reasoning for why trump would burn in hell which lined up almost perfectly with your requirements. I will ask again, was I wrong and uninformed? If yes, how? If no, then it was your statement about me that was wrong.

Speaking of skipping questions, you skipped these - "How do you know that what you’ve been taught and believe came from god and not man? What if the gnostics, cathari or some other oppressed sect were correct but their teachings were oppressed by men in the early church because they threatened their power?" Religions have been corrupted by greedy and ambitious men since the beginning of written history. How do you know that the Christianity that you believe in hasn't also been corrupted?

Don't get all huffy and put off when posters skip your questions when you skip over other poster's questions.

How do you know that they are corrupted? What proof do you have? "Religions have been corrupted" is not defensible. You're making up shit here and don't know it St UNInformed

[UNI88]

Sure oSGbf. I stated why I thought trump would burn in hell. You're the one who posted that I was wrong and uninformed. I then asked you what trump would have to do to go to heaven. You responded and I took your response and compared it to my reasoning for why trump would burn in hell which lined up almost perfectly with your requirements. I will ask again, was I wrong and uninformed? If yes, how? If no, then it was your statement about me that was wrong.

Speaking of skipping questions, you skipped these - "How do you know that what you’ve been taught and believe came from god and not man? What if the gnostics, cathari or some other oppressed sect were correct but their teachings were oppressed by men in the early church because they threatened their power?" Religions have been corrupted by greedy and ambitious men since the beginning of written history. How do you know that the Christianity that you believe in hasn't also been corrupted?

Don't get all huffy and put off when posters skip your questions when you skip over other poster's questions.

How do you know that they are corrupted? What proof do you have? "Religions have been corrupted" is not defensible. You're making up shit here and don't know it St UNInformed

To paraphrase you - I noticed you conveniently skipped the two times I asked you these questions.

Avoid and deflect. You've got nothing.

[SeattleGriz]

How do you know that they are corrupted? What proof do you have? "Religions have been corrupted" is not defensible. You're making up shit here and don't know it St UNInformed

To paraphrase you - I noticed you conveniently skipped the two times I asked you these questions.

Avoid and deflect. You've got nothing.

You did. No one knows your stance. Buc Buc

[houndawg]

Sure oSGbf. I stated why I thought trump would burn in hell. You're the one who posted that I was wrong and uninformed. I then asked you what trump would have to do to go to heaven. You responded and I took your response and compared it to my reasoning for why trump would burn in hell which lined up almost perfectly with your requirements. I will ask again, was I wrong and uninformed? If yes, how? If no, then it was your statement about me that was wrong.

Speaking of skipping questions, you skipped these - "How do you know that what you’ve been taught and believe came from god and not man? What if the gnostics, cathari or some other oppressed sect were correct but their teachings were oppressed by men in the early church because they threatened their power?" Religions have been corrupted by greedy and ambitious men since the beginning of written history. How do you know that the Christianity that you believe in hasn't also been corrupted?

Don't get all huffy and put off when posters skip your questions when you skip over other poster's questions.

How do you know that they are corrupted? What proof do you have? "Religions have been corrupted" is not defensible. You're making up shit here and don't know it St UNInformed

Irony spill - cleanup on aisle 6 please....


a religious wack job talking about others making shit up...

[UNI88]

To paraphrase you - I noticed you conveniently skipped the two times I asked you these questions.

Avoid and deflect. You've got nothing.

You did. No one knows your stance. Buc Buc

That's three times you haven't answered my questions.

I'll be generous and still answer yours with a few examples of corruption in the church:
- Selling of indulgences
- Simony
- the Albigensian crusade
- Sexual abuse by priests/pastors and their cover-up
- Jerry Falwell Jr and the pool boy
- Televangelists preying on people to enrich themselves

I'm not sure how anyone could argue that the medieval church didn't have serious corruption issues. The question isn't whether the church has been corrupt, it's whether that corruption has corrupted church doctrine.

[SeattleGriz]

You did. No one knows your stance. Buc Buc

That's three times you haven't answered my questions.

I'll be generous and still answer yours with a few examples of corruption in the church:
- Selling of indulgences
- Simony
- the Albigensian crusade
- Sexual abuse by priests/pastors and their cover-up
- Jerry Falwell Jr and the pool boy
- Televangelists preying on people to enrich themselves

I'm not sure how anyone could argue that the medieval church didn't have serious corruption issues. The question isn't whether the church has been corrupt, it's whether that corruption has corrupted church doctrine.

Holy shit. What rag dig you copy paste that from. You're kiddin me.

Where is your stance. You've got none. Horrible form

StUni

[houndawg]

Sure oSGbf. I stated why I thought trump would burn in hell. You're the one who posted that I was wrong and uninformed. I then asked you what trump would have to do to go to heaven. You responded and I took your response and compared it to my reasoning for why trump would burn in hell which lined up almost perfectly with your requirements. I will ask again, was I wrong and uninformed? If yes, how? If no, then it was your statement about me that was wrong.

Speaking of skipping questions, you skipped these - "How do you know that what you’ve been taught and believe came from god and not man? What if the gnostics, cathari or some other oppressed sect were correct but their teachings were oppressed by men in the early church because they threatened their power?" Religions have been corrupted by greedy and ambitious men since the beginning of written history. How do you know that the Christianity that you believe in hasn't also been corrupted?

Don't get all huffy and put off when posters skip your questions when you skip over other poster's questions.

How do you know that they are corrupted? What proof do you have? "Religions have been corrupted" is not defensible. You're making up shit here and don't know it St UNInformed

Churches aren't "corrupted", they were born that way - birthed by those who recognized that so many in the herd are mentally feeble enough to believe somebody who tells them that if they do as the preacher says for the rest of their life, and, btw, give what they have to the church, they'll cash in big-time after they're dead.