The Ukraine Crisis

[kalm]

I disagree.

How is Israel making the Middle East safer or improving our world standing with a 40,000 to one kill ratio around 25k of which are kids and women?

We’re supposedly the good guys, remember?

It's foolish or lazy because Israel is not irrelevant. Cutting bait and wishing them luck likely has dire consequences in the Middle East, especially Iran as I believe Ganny mentioned.

It was a clickbait statement worthy of tucker not a serious journalist.

FTR, I don’t think we should cut bait but we should end at the very least end all funding and arms until they make a serious effort at negotiating a peace. Then they need to have skin in the game for rebuilding what they destroyed.

[kalm]

Add Jews to the ever growing list of people Kalm hates

Should change his screen name to KKKalm

Wah!

Everything I don’t like is woke, gay, antisemitic, and Marxist! Not that I even know the history behind those words or understand what they mean!

But WAH!

[kalm]

These are the good guys right?

[SeattleGriz]

but Trump!

Well aren't you the sensitive little snowflake. Do you cry yourself to sleep on your fainting couch every time trump is criticized or do you follow jd's lead to "blow" off steam?

I'm not sure which is worse - following doneOLD's or the woke mob's lead.

Sensitive? Dude, I am the most desensitized person to your "but Trump" shtik. I'm shocked at how it governs your life.

[UNI88]

Well aren't you the sensitive little snowflake. Do you cry yourself to sleep on your fainting couch every time trump is criticized or do you follow jd's lead to "blow" off steam?

I'm not sure which is worse - following doneOLD's or the woke mob's lead.

Sensitive? Dude, I am the most desensitized person to your "but Trump" shtik. I'm shocked at how it governs your life.

I'm shocked at how responding to my but doneOLD shtick governs your life.

No answer means that you fvck the sh!t out of that fainting couch. You must have it in your s/he shed with blackout curtains over the windows so no one sees. You do realize they probably hear you calling the couch a dirty little whore though?

[UNI88]

It's foolish or lazy because Israel is not irrelevant. Cutting bait and wishing them luck likely has dire consequences in the Middle East, especially Iran as I believe Ganny mentioned.

It was a clickbait statement worthy of tucker not a serious journalist.

FTR, I don’t think we should cut bait but we should end at the very least end all funding and arms until they make a serious effort at negotiating a peace. Then they need to have skin in the game for rebuilding what they destroyed.

Would you support peace with the caveat that if hamas ever attacks Israel or terrorizes Jews again that Israel has carte blanche to go in and finish what they started (i.e. wipe hamas from the face of the earth)?

hamas will utilize a ceasefire to lick it's wounds, fundraise, recruit and train before the next attack. Peace with hamas is a pipe dream. Expecting peace to last is the definition of insanity.

[kalm]

FTR, I don’t think we should cut bait but we should end at the very least end all funding and arms until they make a serious effort at negotiating a peace. Then they need to have skin in the game for rebuilding what they destroyed.

Would you support peace with the caveat that if hamas ever attacks Israel or terrorizes Jews again that Israel has carte blanche to go in and finish what they started (i.e. wipe hamas from the face of the earth)?

hamas will utilize a ceasefire to lick it's wounds, fundraise, recruit and train before the next attack. Peace with hamas is a pipe dream. Expecting peace to last is the definition of insanity.

I agree. No fan of Hamas and they have proven to be unredeemable. In a perfect world it would be a UN type cease fire and occupation to settle things down for the next year + and then closely monitored elections and a two state solution.

This is not a perfect world and the current Israeli leadership would never go for this obviously.

But the taking of innocent life needs to end now. I hate both Hamas and the current Israeli government and zionists.

[Caribbean Hen]

Should change his screen name to KKKalm

He'll fit right in with you and BDKKKaren.

TDS

Symptom - falsely believe that all conservatives are racist

[Caribbean Hen]

What countries is he referring to? And what proof does he have that it has anything to do with Israel? Heck, you could make the argument that our inability to remove Russia from Ukraine (after being unable to persuade them not to attack in the first place) is more of a push for countries closer geographically with China to look towards aligning with China. If we aren't able to project force and pressure from a distance and stop a menacing large country from trying to gobble up a smaller neighbor, then why would a small country near China think we'll be able to protect them from China?

As for cutting bait and leaving Israel to whatever, how would that improve our international standing? If Israel is wiped off the map and millions are killed, how does that make us look better and to whom? And then when we need an ally in the Middle East to give Iran pause, and Israel no longer exists, who do we turn to?

Two twitter posts that don't signify any deep thought on the matter other than to make a post and throw it over the wall. And now you've done the same mental laziness.

And how is cutting bait and wishing Israel luck different from what MAQA yahoos want to do with Ukraine?

Populists want to follow trump's lead and placate putin, progressives want to follow the mob's lead and placate hamas?

Noooooo

Conservatives are not out protesting and destroying campuses in support of Russia and we don’t want innocent Ukrainian people killed either

pretty dumb comment 88

[GannonFan]

What countries is he referring to? And what proof does he have that it has anything to do with Israel? Heck, you could make the argument that our inability to remove Russia from Ukraine (after being unable to persuade them not to attack in the first place) is more of a push for countries closer geographically with China to look towards aligning with China. If we aren't able to project force and pressure from a distance and stop a menacing large country from trying to gobble up a smaller neighbor, then why would a small country near China think we'll be able to protect them from China?

As for cutting bait and leaving Israel to whatever, how would that improve our international standing? If Israel is wiped off the map and millions are killed, how does that make us look better and to whom? And then when we need an ally in the Middle East to give Iran pause, and Israel no longer exists, who do we turn to?

Two twitter posts that don't signify any deep thought on the matter other than to make a post and throw it over the wall. And now you've done the same mental laziness.

Are you seriously arguing our international standing and support of Israel in this war with a straight face?

Or that it’s an all or nothing situation with continuing support? Give them everything they demand with zero strings attached or…nothing?

Besides it doesn’t always have to be about strategy. We can chose to, you know, also do the right thing…as leaders of the international community and such.

Neither Stoller or Greenwald are ever lazy in their research or facts. Like them or not, they’re both highly prolific writers with decades of experience. You just might have to dig deeper to find the supporting facts than just a tweet. That is, if you’re not too lazy to do so.

You seem rather angry about this. Relax Francis.

Nonsense, what they said, i.e. cutting Israel off, was lazy on their part, and just something that could be grabbed by internet denizens like yourself that like drive-by posts rather than deep discussions about tough topics. No one is advocating full-throated supported of Israel in anything and everything, and of course Israel should be censored and called to task for going too far in their response and how they've done it in Gaza. But to cut Israel off, like those posts called for, and let them fare on their own in the Middle East would be lunacy at this point and not anywhere in America's interest. Netanyahu needs to go, but that's vastly different than what those two, or even you, suggest.

[UNI88]

He'll fit right in with you and BDKKKaren.

TDS

Symptom - falsely believe that all conservatives are racist

Jumping to a conclusion/hasty generalization.

I didn't say all conservatives are racist. I did imply that BDK and bobskat are. That implication can be defended by pointing out posts that support it.

[UNI88]

And how is cutting bait and wishing Israel luck different from what MAQA yahoos want to do with Ukraine?

Populists want to follow trump's lead and placate putin, progressives want to follow the mob's lead and placate hamas?

Noooooo

Conservatives are not out protesting and destroying campuses in support of Russia and we don’t want innocent Ukrainian people killed either

pretty dumb comment 88

trump and his MAQA yahoos are populists, not conservatives.

Destroying campuses or destroying the Capitol? And what do you think will happen if doneOLD loses in November? MAQA yahoos are just as capable of violence and destruction as woke progressives.

[Caribbean Hen]

Noooooo

Conservatives are not out protesting and destroying campuses in support of Russia and we don’t want innocent Ukrainian people killed either

pretty dumb comment 88

trump and his MAQA yahoos are populists, not conservatives.

Destroying campuses or destroying the Capitol? And what do you think will happen if doneOLD loses in November? MAQA yahoos are just as capable of violence and destruction as woke progressives.

So you’re admitting you made a dumb post

[Caribbean Hen]

TDS

Symptom - falsely believe that all conservatives are racist

Jumping to a conclusion/hasty generalization.

I didn't say all conservatives are racist. I did imply that BDK and bobskat are. That implication can be defended by pointing out posts that support it.

So you’re walking down a dark and empty Nyc Street very late at night and you notice two young guys walking towards you… you get a little closer and you notice that they’re black kids. At this point, if you cross the street to avoid them, does that mean you’re a racist?

[UNI88]

trump and his MAQA yahoos are populists, not conservatives.

Destroying campuses or destroying the Capitol? And what do you think will happen if doneOLD loses in November? MAQA yahoos are just as capable of violence and destruction as woke progressives.

So you’re admitting you made a dumb post

No, I'm not. There is more to wanting to pull support from a country in need than protesting on campus. trump and his MAQA yahoos wanting to pull the rug out from under Ukraine has definite similarities to woke progressives wanting to pull the rug out from under Israel. To argue otherwise or to attempt to deflect attention from the similarities by focusing attention only on the protests is dumb.

[Bobcat]

It's foolish or lazy because Israel is not irrelevant. Cutting bait and wishing them luck likely has dire consequences in the Middle East, especially Iran as I believe Ganny mentioned.

It was a clickbait statement worthy of tucker not a serious journalist.

FTR, I don’t think we should cut bait but we should end at the very least end all funding and arms until they make a serious effort at negotiating a peace. Then they need to have skin in the game for rebuilding what they destroyed.

Israel doesn't have to do a damn thing, they were attacked and can defend their country at all costs, if you don't like their response don't attack them.
This is 100% on Palestine

[Caribbean Hen]

So you’re admitting you made a dumb post

No, I'm not. There is more to wanting to pull support from a country in need than protesting on campus. trump and his MAQA yahoos wanting to pull the rug out from under Ukraine has definite similarities to woke progressives wanting to pull the rug out from under Israel. To argue otherwise or to attempt to deflect attention from the similarities by focusing attention only on the protests is dumb.

Why not come up with a solution? It’s not about “pulling the rug out from under The Ukraine”

It’s about stopping the slaughter

[Bobcat]

Should change his screen name to KKKalm

Wah!

Everything I don’t like is woke, gay, antisemitic, and Marxist! Not that I even know the history behind those words or understand what they mean!

But WAH!

Typical racist response, deflect and attack

[kalm]

Are you seriously arguing our international standing and support of Israel in this war with a straight face?

Or that it’s an all or nothing situation with continuing support? Give them everything they demand with zero strings attached or…nothing?

Besides it doesn’t always have to be about strategy. We can chose to, you know, also do the right thing…as leaders of the international community and such.

Neither Stoller or Greenwald are ever lazy in their research or facts. Like them or not, they’re both highly prolific writers with decades of experience. You just might have to dig deeper to find the supporting facts than just a tweet. That is, if you’re not too lazy to do so.

You seem rather angry about this. Relax Francis.

Nonsense, what they said, i.e. cutting Israel off, was lazy on their part, and just something that could be grabbed by internet denizens like yourself that like drive-by posts rather than deep discussions about tough topics. No one is advocating full-throated supported of Israel in anything and everything, and of course Israel should be censored and called to task for going too far in their response and how they've done it in Gaza. But to cut Israel off, like those posts called for, and let them fare on their own in the Middle East would be lunacy at this point and not anywhere in America's interest. Netanyahu needs to go, but that's vastly different than what those two, or even you, suggest.

Oh. You want a deep discussion about this one? Do you think a stern talking to amounts to a deep discussion?

I think the entire international community has an obligation to intercede here. I do not like my country being complicit to what amounts to a genocide. Israel was created due to religious history and to provide safe haven from persecution and…ironically, genocide. Not to subjugate the other people who already lived there.

Israel has a right to exist and we should support that right. But we do so without any strings attached due mostly to AIPAC.

By not using at least temporary suspension of weapons and financials as a carrot why would anything change?

We are supporting one of the world’s current leading terrorists and his cabinet who are killing kids with our bombs and support.

We are better than this.

[kalm]

Wah!

Everything I don’t like is woke, gay, antisemitic, and Marxist! Not that I even know the history behind those words or understand what they mean!

But WAH!

Typical racist response, deflect and attack

Response to what? Your well conceived and clever attempt at discussion?

Or should I have used a brown skinned baby crying?

[Bobcat]

KKKalm it is

Just gross behavior

[kalm]

KKKalm it is

Just gross behavior

Yes! Go with that one. The psychological projection checks out!

[Bobcat]

KKKalm it is

Just gross behavior

Yes! Go with that one. The psychological projection checks out!

Says the guy actually using slaves as memes

[kalm]

Yes! Go with that one. The psychological projection checks out!

Says the guy actually using slaves as memes

What?

[GannonFan]

Nonsense, what they said, i.e. cutting Israel off, was lazy on their part, and just something that could be grabbed by internet denizens like yourself that like drive-by posts rather than deep discussions about tough topics. No one is advocating full-throated supported of Israel in anything and everything, and of course Israel should be censored and called to task for going too far in their response and how they've done it in Gaza. But to cut Israel off, like those posts called for, and let them fare on their own in the Middle East would be lunacy at this point and not anywhere in America's interest. Netanyahu needs to go, but that's vastly different than what those two, or even you, suggest.

Oh. You want a deep discussion about this one? Do you think a stern talking to amounts to a deep discussion?

I think the entire international community has an obligation to intercede here. I do not like my country being complicit to what amounts to a genocide. Israel was created due to religious history and to provide safe haven from persecution and…ironically, genocide. Not to subjugate the other people who already lived there.

Israel has a right to exist and we should support that right. But we do so without any strings attached due mostly to AIPAC.

By not using at least temporary suspension of weapons and financials as a carrot why would anything change?

We are supporting one of the world’s current leading terrorists and his cabinet who are killing kids with our bombs and support.

We are better than this.

What is it that we actually want? Why would anyone listen to us when we don't appear to have any thoughts or ideas on what a peaceful solution would look like? Of course we want a cessation of hostilities - an election is coming up and this issue certainly causes divisions in at least one of our political parties. Shockingly, that hasn't moved the needle on Israel's or Hamas's side to change anything.

We spent the past 4 years castigating Netanyahu and telling everyone what a bad person he is, we spent the past 4 years still trying to reinvent an agreement with Iran from 10 years ago that wasn't a good idea then and surely isn't now, we spent the past 4 years trying to ostracize Saudia Arabia until we figured out that we needed some help in the region and friends, or at least not-enemies, were hard to come by. And of course it's not just this administration, while Trump had success with his Abraham Accords, he didn't do much on the Palestinian side for them, especially when it came to the infringements of Israel's settlements into more and more Palestinian land.

But then again, if the Palestinians were really about peace, they probably should've chosen peace on the multiple times that we stepped into the morass and brought both sides to the table and peace was an option, but Palestine walked away every time. School books in Palestine, if any are left after this, described Jews as non-human and advocated the complete annihilation of Israel. Let's be honest, given the amount of antisemitism that exists in most of the world, I'm sure plenty of countries are good with this. It makes our discussions here of posting the Ten Commandments in rooms and having books celebrate transgenderism as tame by comparison. And this recent explosion of violence was brought on by Hamas, the popularly elected government in Palestine, viscously attacking, raping, ripping bodies apart in the streets while raping them, and then taking hundreds hostage back into tunnels and amongst the population of human shields to further their cause, and occasionally executing these poor souls. There's rarely any mention of this in protests against Israel to stop trying to wipe out Hamas, almost as if Hamas hasn't been doing anything to criticize for the past year, if not the past two decades.

We should be able to work with Israel and we should be able to step to the forefront and bring about a peaceful cessation of current violence. And we should be able to bring both sides to the table and hammer out a long term solution that at least keeps events like Hamas's Oct 7 massacre from happening. But we've failed too many times in the current administration (and others before it, sure, but like with place kickers, you're only as good as your last kick) in too many foreign policy venues that we're impotent right now to do anything, especially considering that we can't turn our focus from a super tight election. It's fine, and it's right, to demand the killing stop immediately. But it's doomed for failure without the follow through to find a more stable future.