Trump 2.0: MAGAA

[BDKJMU]

I'll just leave this here.

Yep. DOGE is basically the Obama version of Recovery.gov, but expanded. Cutting waste/fraud/abuse is cool when a donk does it, when Trump does it, its downright NAZI like.

Another case of its only bad when Trump does it. Course this was before the democrat party went batshit leftist crazy.

[kalm]

What’s the matter? Can’t find one?

how bout you show me a few dems that think the student should have to pay for it

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/student-lo ... a-jayapal/

College should be free
Ever since Sen. Bernie Sanders went all in on free college in 2016, it’s been a main plank of progressive politics.

Many Democrats have lined up behind the most generous forms of free public college, including waiving tuition for students from families under a certain income threshold.

Sanders’ proposal would wipe out tuition for all public colleges and universities. Under his pitch, states would be on the hook for 33 percent of the cost and the federal government would cover the rest.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren, meanwhile, has said her proposed “ultra-millionaire tax” would cover the cost of four years of tuition for all to attend public colleges and universities.

Others have voiced support for free college, but so far don’t have detailed proposals.

1). Without reading your link I’m guessing there no quotes where a Dem says college education is required to bekng successful. Could bd wrong though. Go ahead a post a quote from the linked article.

2). There’s a massive ROI for society in providing free tuition. IMO, trade schools should be included. Even so, one can still be a drop out or exchange college for a trade and go on to a successful life. An education just makes it more likely.

[BDKJMU]

how bout you show me a few dems that think the student should have to pay for it

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/student-lo ... a-jayapal/

College should be free
Ever since Sen. Bernie Sanders went all in on free college in 2016, it’s been a main plank of progressive politics.

Many Democrats have lined up behind the most generous forms of free public college, including waiving tuition for students from families under a certain income threshold.

Sanders’ proposal would wipe out tuition for all public colleges and universities. Under his pitch, states would be on the hook for 33 percent of the cost and the federal government would cover the rest.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren, meanwhile, has said her proposed “ultra-millionaire tax” would cover the cost of four years of tuition for all to attend public colleges and universities.

Others have voiced support for free college, but so far don’t have detailed proposals.

1). Without reading your link I’m guessing there no quotes where a Dem says college education is required to bekng successful. Could bd wrong though. Go ahead a post a quote from the linked article.

2). There’s a massive ROI for society in providing free tuition. IMO, trade schools should be included. Even so, one can still be a drop out or exchange college for a trade and go on to a successful life. An education just makes it more likely.

Yeah, NO. And I bolded the main points cliff notes version.

Why “Free College” is a Terrible Idea

First, “free college” would completely sever the financial connection between the seller (colleges) and the customer (students). With the full expense of college falling on third parties (the taxpayers), students would no longer have any incentive to economize. Neither would colleges. As former Harvard University president Derek Bok has written, “College presidents share a common trait with gambling addicts and exiled royalty – there is never enough money.” If college presidents no longer have to worry about losing students because their schools’ tuition and fees are too high, the only remaining constraint on their spending would be how much money they can wheedle out of Uncle Sam. With “free college,” still more of our limited resources would be drawn into higher education, but the cost would be spread out over the taxpaying public.

Second, people usually don’t put as much care or effort into things they get for free as they do with things they are paying for. When it comes to college studies, those with a monetary stake in them will predictably bear down much more than will those who are paying nothing from their own pockets. Over the decades, we have seen a sharp decline in the number of hours college students put into their coursework (see this study by Babcock and Marks), and it’s easy to imagine a further decline in effort by students if they are attending college for free.

In her 2004 paper “The Incentive Effects of Higher Education Subsidies on Student Effort,” New York Federal Reserve economist Aysegul Sahin made the case that the less they have to pay, the less students work. She wrote: “I find that although subsidizing tuition increases enrollment rates, it reduces student effort. This follows from the fact that a high-subsidy, low-tuition policy causes an increase in the percentage of less able and less highly motivated college graduates. Additionally—and potentially more important—all students, even the more highly motivated ones, respond to lower tuition levels by decreasing their effort levels. This study adds to the literature on the enrollment effects of low-tuition policies by demonstrating how high-subsidy, low-tuition policies have both disincentive effects on students’ study time, and adverse effects on human capital accumulation.”

Another adverse consequence of free college would be a further degradation of the college curriculum. In the days before the government started to subsidize college with grants and easy loans, most schools had (and prided themselves on) a demanding curriculum that required students to learn about many aspects of Western Civilization (its literature, fine arts, history, and philosophical foundations), as well as some rigorous math and science courses. Over the decades, however, most schools have relaxed their standards, making formerly demanding courses optional and permitting a profusion of trendy, popular, and often politically charged courses.
That trend will accelerate once college becomes “free…”

https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/why ... ible-idea/

[kalm]

1). Without reading your link I’m guessing there no quotes where a Dem says college education is required to bekng successful. Could bd wrong though. Go ahead a post a quote from the linked article.

2). There’s a massive ROI for society in providing free tuition. IMO, trade schools should be included. Even so, one can still be a drop out or exchange college for a trade and go on to a successful life. An education just makes it more likely.

Yeah, NO. And I bolded the main points cliff notes version.

Why “Free College” is a Terrible Idea

First, “free college” would completely sever the financial connection between the seller (colleges) and the customer (students). With the full expense of college falling on third parties (the taxpayers), students would no longer have any incentive to economize. Neither would colleges. As former Harvard University president Derek Bok has written, “College presidents share a common trait with gambling addicts and exiled royalty – there is never enough money.” If college presidents no longer have to worry about losing students because their schools’ tuition and fees are too high, the only remaining constraint on their spending would be how much money they can wheedle out of Uncle Sam. With “free college,” still more of our limited resources would be drawn into higher education, but the cost would be spread out over the taxpaying public.

Second, people usually don’t put as much care or effort into things they get for free as they do with things they are paying for. When it comes to college studies, those with a monetary stake in them will predictably bear down much more than will those who are paying nothing from their own pockets. Over the decades, we have seen a sharp decline in the number of hours college students put into their coursework (see this study by Babcock and Marks), and it’s easy to imagine a further decline in effort by students if they are attending college for free.

In her 2004 paper “The Incentive Effects of Higher Education Subsidies on Student Effort,” New York Federal Reserve economist Aysegul Sahin made the case that the less they have to pay, the less students work. She wrote: “I find that although subsidizing tuition increases enrollment rates, it reduces student effort. This follows from the fact that a high-subsidy, low-tuition policy causes an increase in the percentage of less able and less highly motivated college graduates. Additionally—and potentially more important—all students, even the more highly motivated ones, respond to lower tuition levels by decreasing their effort levels. This study adds to the literature on the enrollment effects of low-tuition policies by demonstrating how high-subsidy, low-tuition policies have both disincentive effects on students’ study time, and adverse effects on human capital accumulation.”

Another adverse consequence of free college would be a further degradation of the college curriculum. In the days before the government started to subsidize college with grants and easy loans, most schools had (and prided themselves on) a demanding curriculum that required students to learn about many aspects of Western Civilization (its literature, fine arts, history, and philosophical foundations), as well as some rigorous math and science courses. Over the decades, however, most schools have relaxed their standards, making formerly demanding courses optional and permitting a profusion of trendy, popular, and often politically charged courses.
That trend will accelerate once college becomes “free…”

https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/why ... ible-idea/

The first quote is from a former president of Harvard. Harvard provides free tuition for 24% of its students and uses a family income based system after that.

California provided free tuition to all of its colleges prior to 1970. Other states also did in some capacity or another.

European countries provide it today.

How did we ever avoid the terribleness before and how are other countries dealing with it today?

And unless I missed it, this doesn’t refute the point of ROI by investing in an educated workforce. Not to mention, more educated people tend to have superior critical thinking skills and are less gullible to misinformation.

[BDKJMU]

Yeah, NO. And I bolded the main points cliff notes version.

https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/why ... ible-idea/

The first quote is from a former president of Harvard. Harvard provides free tuition for 24% of its students and uses a family income based system after that.

California provided free tuition to all of its colleges prior to 1970. Other states also did in some capacity or another.

European countries provide it today.

How did we ever avoid the terribleness before and how are other countries dealing with it today?

And unless I missed it, this doesn’t refute the point of ROI by investing in an educated workforce. Not to mention, more educated people tend to have superior critical thinking skills and are less gullible to misinformation.

And you fail to refute the 2 points:

-“With the full expense of college falling on third parties (the taxpayers), students would no longer have any incentive to economize. Neither would colleges.”

“-people usually don’t put as much care or effort into things they get for free as they do with things they are paying for”

There’s no such thing as ‘free college’. And you provide ZERO evidence that the taxpayer would get the ROI paying for the current 150k+ avg 4 year college cost today
https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college
which would rapidly inflate with the govt paying for it.

And many people say we have too many going to college and not enough going into the trades. So yeah, lets exacerbate that with even MORE going to 4 year colleges so we have more degree inflation and underemployed college grads.

And you want to have even more working class vote conk. Tell them they have to play for the college educations for the kids of the upper middle class and wealthy folks..

[BDKJMU]

[Caribbean Hen]

Bernie Sanders made an early splash in 2015 with his call to make public colleges and universities tuition-free — a battle he’s rejoining this week with a new version of legislation to eliminate tuition and cancel student debt — and Democrats have been arguing about it ever since.

In the 2020 field, Elizabeth Warren has joined Sanders on the free college bandwagon. Joe Biden was an early endorser of this idea in 2015,

https://www.vox.com/2019/6/24/18677785/ ... rren-biden

Free college was a hot item for some Dems but seemed to somewhat cool off in 24, probably because it was dumb

[UNI88]

Pussies wouldn't let a driver bump the pace car.

[BDKJMU]

Speaking of dummies. That guy leading the DOGE program ain’t very smart when it comes to air traffic control efficiency.

FAKE NEWS
https://redstate.com/sister-toldjah/202 ... e-n2185698

[Caribbean Hen]

Speaking of dummies. That guy leading the DOGE program ain’t very smart when it comes to air traffic control efficiency.

FAKE NEWS
https://redstate.com/sister-toldjah/202 ... e-n2185698

Kalm duped again

[kalm]

The first quote is from a former president of Harvard. Harvard provides free tuition for 24% of its students and uses a family income based system after that.

California provided free tuition to all of its colleges prior to 1970. Other states also did in some capacity or another.

European countries provide it today.

How did we ever avoid the terribleness before and how are other countries dealing with it today?

And unless I missed it, this doesn’t refute the point of ROI by investing in an educated workforce. Not to mention, more educated people tend to have superior critical thinking skills and are less gullible to misinformation.

And you fail to refute the 2 points:

-“With the full expense of college falling on third parties (the taxpayers), students would no longer have any incentive to economize. Neither would colleges.”

“-people usually don’t put as much care or effort into things they get for free as they do with things they are paying for”

There’s no such thing as ‘free college’. And you provide ZERO evidence that the taxpayer would get the ROI paying for the current 150k+ avg 4 year college cost today
https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college
which would rapidly inflate with the govt paying for it.

And many people say we have too many going to college and not enough going into the trades. So yeah, lets exacerbate that with even MORE going to 4 year colleges so we have more degree inflation and underemployed college grads.

And you want to have even more working class vote conk. Tell them they have to play for the college educations for the kids of the upper middle class and wealthy folks..

I refuted both points but it requires reading for comprehension. (Hint: we’ve done it before and most our peer nations currently do it.)

Regarding ROI…it’s intuitive. Increased productivity, increased innovation, increased tax revenues, lower social spending required.

But a very quick search showed this study from Georgetown.
It shows how tax revenues associated with Biden’s tuition idea alone would surpass spending within 11 years.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/u ... ege-ES.pdf

[kalm]

Speaking of dummies. That guy leading the DOGE program ain’t very smart when it comes to air traffic control efficiency.

FAKE NEWS
https://redstate.com/sister-toldjah/202 ... e-n2185698

Well if Leavitt says it and Red State reports it you know it’s solid!

[Caribbean Hen]

“I happened to mention the president's name and it was like they got shot with a dart in the jugular that contained like methamphetamine and rabies," Musk said in a joint interview with President Donald Trump that airs Tuesday, Feb. 18 at 9 p.m. EST on "Hannity."



TDS to be covered by your health insurance soon

[kalm]

Hanford is the most contaminated nuclear site in the Western Hemisphere and is about 150 miles from us. As previously mentioned, the BPA controls the entire PNW power grid and is 100% funded through rates.

This is not about efficiency.

Federal lawmakers are demanding answers from President Donald Trump and his Department of Government Efficiency after reports that hundreds of probationary employees at the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA), Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) and the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) were laid off late last week.

More than two dozen staff at DOE’s Hanford site office were let go as part of a broader purging of more than 1,800 layoffs at the department, comprising about 11% of its staffing, according to a release from U.S. Sen. Patty Murray. She also reported that a handful of staff at PNNL were laid off.

Six hundred staff were terminated at BPA, or roughly 20% of its workforce, including linemen, engineers and power dispatchers, according to Murray and a letter to President Trump from U.S. Sens. Ron Wyden and Jeff Merkley. That does not include 90 job offers that were also rescinded.

https://www.tricitiesbusinessnews.com/a ... e-bpa-pnnl

[kalm]

Can we put this one to rest now? Or will poor, frustrated Elon continue to lie about it for his minions sake?

With receipts if you care to read the thread and hit the link.

[Caribbean Hen]

Can we put this one to rest now? Or will poor, frustrated Elon continue to lie about it for his minions sake?

With receipts if you care to read the thread and hit the link.

Musk never said that those millions were receiving checks did he ?

Hilarious

[kalm]

Can we put this one to rest now? Or will poor, frustrated Elon continue to lie about it for his minions sake?

With receipts if you care to read the thread and hit the link.

Musk never said that those millions were receiving checks did he ?

Hilarious

I’m not seeing where Wolfers (you know…an actual real economist) accused Musk of millions but Musk has to be approaching 100 tweets trying to justify his misunderstanding here.

It’s quite hilarious indeed.

[UNI88]

Can we put this one to rest now? Or will poor, frustrated Elon continue to lie about it for his minions sake?

With receipts if you care to read the thread and hit the link.

Musk never said that those millions were receiving checks did he ?

Hilarious

What do you think this part of the tweet implies?

Maybe Twilight is real and there are a lot of vampires collecting Social Security

If these people aren't collecting social security, then elon unfairly impugned the system to advance his own agenda. I guess we found the fraud, it's elon's tweets/words.

[UNI88]

Didn't the Supreme Court weigh on our student loans? SC shot them down, but you still support them. Fuck dude. You are a huge piece of shit. Doing whatever you want.

And a judge put a temporary restraining order blocking them just like Judges are doing with some of trump's executive orders.

Apples to apples comparison: you said nothing when biden's orders were TRO'ed but cry like a overly sensitive little baby when it happens to trump's.

Trump and allies celebrated court orders against Biden they now claim are ‘tyrannical’

President Donald Trump and top allies who have questioned the constitutionality of recent court orders blocking the administration’s agenda touted similar rulings by federal courts as “great news” and “brilliant” when they paused President Joe Biden’s policies.
...
The complaints from Miller, who recently blasted a series of temporary court orders against Trump as “tyrannical,” have been particularly notable because he was heavily involved with seeking them against Biden.

Following Trump’s first term, Miller created America First Legal, a group that frequently sued the Biden administration over its Covid-19 policies, immigration orders and its decision to remove Trump appointees from government boards.

[Caribbean Hen]

Musk never said that those millions were receiving checks did he ?

Hilarious

What do you think this part of the tweet implies?

Maybe Twilight is real and there are a lot of vampires collecting Social Security

If these people aren't collecting social security, then elon unfairly impugned the system to advance his own agenda. I guess we found the fraud, it's elon's tweets/words.

Duh

[Bobcat]

Somebody (not Musk) needs to learn how to code

[UNI88]

What do you think this part of the tweet implies?

If these people aren't collecting social security, then elon unfairly impugned the system to advance his own agenda. I guess we found the fraud, it's elon's tweets/words.

Duh

Good to see that we agree that the fraud is whatever elon tweets/says.

[kalm]

And a judge put a temporary restraining order blocking them just like Judges are doing with some of trump's executive orders.

Apples to apples comparison: you said nothing when biden's orders were TRO'ed but cry like a overly sensitive little baby when it happens to trump's.

Trump and allies celebrated court orders against Biden they now claim are ‘tyrannical’

President Donald Trump and top allies who have questioned the constitutionality of recent court orders blocking the administration’s agenda touted similar rulings by federal courts as “great news” and “brilliant” when they paused President Joe Biden’s policies.
...
The complaints from Miller, who recently blasted a series of temporary court orders against Trump as “tyrannical,” have been particularly notable because he was heavily involved with seeking them against Biden.

Following Trump’s first term, Miller created America First Legal, a group that frequently sued the Biden administration over its Covid-19 policies, immigration orders and its decision to remove Trump appointees from government boards.

Odds of them backing down and obeying the courts?

[SeattleGriz]

What the fuck is with your stupid fucking hypothetical. Jesus Christ idiot. Get on board and stop being so fucking lazy.

Have you tried deep breathing and living in the present to help yourself?

We don't have time for your patented stupidity and misinformed views.

[UNI88]

Have you tried deep breathing and living in the present to help yourself?

We're too busy with our own patented stupidity and misinformed views to have time for yours.

FYP


If these cuts that trump/musk are making hold up in court will they lead to voter dissatisfaction and impact the 2026/2028 elections? It's easy to say government should be smaller but does your perspective change when those cuts impact you, your friends or your neighbors?