Christian Uganda pushes for Death Penalty for Gays

[mainejeff]

Homosexuality is NOT a learned behavior, unlike religion, prejudice and hatred.

BINGO.

You are either born a c*ck s*cker or a p*ssy muncher.......period.

[slycat]

Since when does anyone want to teach people to be gay? Its all about understanding and respect.

Since the LGBT lobby started aggressively attacking traditional values, especially Christians.

Either you have not paid attention or you are being intentionally disingenuous.

No. The LGBT group is not going around teaching people how to be gay or become gay. Since being gay isn't a choice and is how you are born then there isn't a method to teach and convert a bunch of people to become gay. Maybe they are helping people understand their sexually identities and help those who are ridiculed and hated by their families if they come out be themselves and accept who they are.

Do you have any gay friends. Have you ever gotten to know someone who is gay and what they have gone through? I have, and to see what they have endured from the hate from their families and others around them I cannot accept the fact that it is a choice. No one would alienate themselves like that. Plus they have know they were attracted to the same sex as earlier as they can remember.

[Grizalltheway]

Africa is dying due to overpopulation and AIDS. The Ugandan law is an unfortunate reaction to this reality: a reality exasperated by the roman catholic church and its policies on condom use and birth control.

When it's all said and done, the roman catholic church will be credited with the deaths of billions in Africa - yet another black mark on the most brutal tyranny mankind has ever witnessed - the roman catholic church.

Joe, nice try.

Jeff, do you think before you write? Look, I know the schtick of your "clan" to blame the church for everything, but these statements are ridiculous. Like most of the "enlightened" Western World, you would rather simply have Africans go away, by "sharing" wth them birth control and abortion to limit their numbers, than actually generously share the resources of the world with them -- as the church urges.

People die in Africa because it is some body's economic interest for that to happen. And to "solve" this problem, it is much cheaper to give them birth control and abortion than to heed pesky messages about sharing what we have with others.

The Catholic Church is growing rapdily in Africa because, given the choice between the message of the Church and the message of people like you, the African people are responding to the message that tells them that they are a good and worthy people. They understand that the message of the secular western world is that they are burden -- underscored by our willingness to give them birth control and abortion, which says loudly and clearly, "Go away. You are burden to us."

Giving them condoms isn't about making them "go away", it's about controlling an AIDS epidemic. Teaching them to be good catholics and not masturbate or have sex before marriage is NOT going to work, period.

[JoltinJoe]

Jeff, do you think before you write? Look, I know the schtick of your "clan" to blame the church for everything, but these statements are ridiculous. Like most of the "enlightened" Western World, you would rather simply have Africans go away, by "sharing" wth them birth control and abortion to limit their numbers, than actually generously share the resources of the world with them -- as the church urges.

People die in Africa because it is some body's economic interest for that to happen. And to "solve" this problem, it is much cheaper to give them birth control and abortion than to heed pesky messages about sharing what we have with others.

The Catholic Church is growing rapdily in Africa because, given the choice between the message of the Church and the message of people like you, the African people are responding to the message that tells them that they are a good and worthy people. They understand that the message of the secular western world is that they are burden -- underscored by our willingness to give them birth control and abortion, which says loudly and clearly, "Go away. You are burden to us."

Giving them condoms isn't about making them "go away", it's about controlling an AIDS epidemic. Teaching them to be good catholics and not masturbate or have sex before marriage is NOT going to work, period.

The issue being addressed was "overpopulation," introduced by Jeff in his post. See above (i.e, the one you deleted in your quoting).

The word "condom" appeared nowhere in my reply. Pay attention next time.

[Grizalltheway]

Giving them condoms isn't about making them "go away", it's about controlling an AIDS epidemic. Teaching them to be good catholics and not masturbate or have sex before marriage is NOT going to work, period.

The issue being addressed was "overpopulation," introduced by Jeff in his post. See above (i.e, the one you deleted in your quoting).

The word "condom" appeared nowhere in my reply. Pay attention next time.

You're not in court Joe, I know what you meant by birth control . Also, overpopulation IS an issue when a country can't support the people it already has. Of course, Catholics would prefer that they keep multiplying like rabbits so they can have more ignorant souls to "save".

[JoltinJoe]

How does my quest for equality affect ANYONE else?

It doesn't and that is all that this issue should be about. Civil rights and entitlements that most Americans can take for granted are being denied to you. It is purely a civil issue, not a religious one.

Freedom of religion has always been protected in the United States; but the flip-side is that there is also a non-establishment component to the constitutional protection afforded religion. That was a wise decision because, practically speaking, there is no greater threat to the freedom of religion than the establishment of religion. This is true for two reasons: (i) if you establish a religion, there is no more freedom of religion (at least as to any religion which is not the established religion); and (ii) the more you try to establish your religious values as binding on others, the more likely the others will try to intrude on your religion. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. You go around trying to establish your religion as civil law, someone will come around and try to threaten your religious freedom.

In my mind, there is a moral obligation to speak out for religious reasons when the issue affects lives which cannot speak for themselves or lives which cannot adequately defend themselves. But when the issue pertains to non-public conduct of two consenting adults, it is best to keep the divide between freedom of religion and non-establishment.

[JoltinJoe]

The issue being addressed was "overpopulation," introduced by Jeff in his post. See above (i.e, the one you deleted in your quoting).

The word "condom" appeared nowhere in my reply. Pay attention next time.

You're not in court Joe, I know what you meant by birth control . Also, overpopulation IS an issue when a country can't support the people it already has. Of course, Catholics would prefer that they keep multiplying like rabbits so they can have more ignorant souls to "save".

My point is precisely that this is the way you see it: the people in Africa are "ignorant" and you think we'd all be better off without them around.

My point: the people in Africa are not ignorant; and they fully understand what you are getting at. That's why they are joining the Church in droves, and rejecting your offers of abortion and contraceptives.

[D1B]

You're not in court Joe, I know what you meant by birth control . Also, overpopulation IS an issue when a country can't support the people it already has. Of course, Catholics would prefer that they keep multiplying like rabbits so they can have more ignorant souls to "save".

My point is precisely that this is the way you see it: the people in Africa are "ignorant" and you think we'd all be better off without them around.

My point: the people in Africa are not ignorant; and they fully understand what you are getting at. That's why they are joining the Church in droves, and rejecting your offers of abortion and contraceptives.

Oh Bullshit Joe. The church preys on the poor. They are "joining" the church because the church gives them food and at the same time sells them a load of shit called the New Testament.

Joe, you aint in court and you certainly aint fooling anyone.

[Grizalltheway]

You're not in court Joe, I know what you meant by birth control . Also, overpopulation IS an issue when a country can't support the people it already has. Of course, Catholics would prefer that they keep multiplying like rabbits so they can have more ignorant souls to "save".

My point is precisely that this is the way you see it: the people in Africa are "ignorant" and you think we'd all be better off without them around.

My point: the people in Africa are not ignorant; and they fully understand what you are getting at. That's why they are joining the Church in droves, and rejecting your offers of abortion and contraceptives.

And what is this explosion in church membership doing to stem the rising tsunami of AIDS and HIV, Joe?

[D1B]

You're not in court Joe, I know what you meant by birth control . Also, overpopulation IS an issue when a country can't support the people it already has. Of course, Catholics would prefer that they keep multiplying like rabbits so they can have more ignorant souls to "save".

My point is precisely that this is the way you see it: the people in Africa are "ignorant" and you think we'd all be better off without them around.

My point: the people in Africa are not ignorant; and they fully understand what you are getting at. That's why they are joining the Church in droves, and rejecting your offers of abortion and contraceptives.

Wrong again Joe. Women in Africa are literally dying for birth control and especially condoms. They, as always, bear the burden of AIDS and childbearing in a third world continent.

You are utterly wrong that people are joining your fucked up cult to escape offers of birth control. Fucking liar.

[JoltinJoe]

My point is precisely that this is the way you see it: the people in Africa are "ignorant" and you think we'd all be better off without them around.

My point: the people in Africa are not ignorant; and they fully understand what you are getting at. That's why they are joining the Church in droves, and rejecting your offers of abortion and contraceptives.

Oh Bullshit Joe. The church preys on the poor. They are "joining" the church because the church gives them food and at the same time sells them a load of **** called the New Testament.

Joe, you aint in court and you certainly aint fooling anyone.

It is astounding that you apparently do not even perceive the haughty paternalism which is quite obvious in your outlook on these issues. Where are you getting your information? Do you ever communicate with families in Africa?

[JoltinJoe]

My point is precisely that this is the way you see it: the people in Africa are "ignorant" and you think we'd all be better off without them around.

My point: the people in Africa are not ignorant; and they fully understand what you are getting at. That's why they are joining the Church in droves, and rejecting your offers of abortion and contraceptives.

And what is this explosion in church membership doing to stem the rising tsunami of AIDS and HIV, Joe?

It's the other way around. There is no organization in the world which has committed more resources to combat the problems of HIV in Africa than the Catholic Church. The swell in Church membership results because the African people appreciate genuine assistance and solutions, rather than haughty paternalism which supposes that they are -- in your own words -- "ignorant souls."

[D1B]

Oh Bullshit Joe. The church preys on the poor. They are "joining" the church because the church gives them food and at the same time sells them a load of **** called the New Testament.

Joe, you aint in court and you certainly aint fooling anyone.

It is astounding that you apparently do not even perceive the haughty paternalism which is quite obvious in your outlook on these issues. Where are you getting your information? Do you ever communicate with families in Africa?

Nice try Joe. Next....

[JoltinJoe]

It is astounding that you apparently do not even perceive the haughty paternalism which is quite obvious in your outlook on these issues. Where are you getting your information? Do you ever communicate with families in Africa?

Nice try Joe. Next....

So, your answer is, you actually have no idea what a person in Africa might think -- you certainly have never even communicated with someone in Africa -- but you nonetheless presume to speak for them.

How long can this go on before you catch on and say to yourself, "Hey, I am being haughty and paternalistic."

[Grizalltheway]

And what is this explosion in church membership doing to stem the rising tsunami of AIDS and HIV, Joe?

It's the other way around. There is no organization in the world which has committed more resources to combat the problems of HIV in Africa than the Catholic Church. The swell in Church membership results because the African people appreciate genuine assistance and solutions, rather than haughty paternalism which supposes that they are -- in your own words -- "ignorant souls."

And how is the pope telling them not to use condoms, a proven method in combating HIV, helping the HIV problem?

[JoltinJoe]

It's the other way around. There is no organization in the world which has committed more resources to combat the problems of HIV in Africa than the Catholic Church. The swell in Church membership results because the African people appreciate genuine assistance and solutions, rather than haughty paternalism which supposes that they are -- in your own words -- "ignorant souls."

And how is the pope telling them not to use condoms, a proven method in combating HIV, helping the HIV problem?

Use of a condom reduces the risk of transmission of HIV in any single sexual encounter. However, it is doubtful that the wide-scale acceptance of condoms as a tool to fight HIV will decrease the total number of HIV transmissions. Follow the map. Condoms reduce the risk by 98%; but if 100 HIV-infected people have encounters using a condom, believing their conduct is safe, you have likely created 2 new HIV cases. This is why I call condom use "somewhat safer sex" rather than "safe sex." It is not entirely safe, as the term "safe sex" reasonably implies.

You probably won't accept this. But then again, the intellectual elite laughed at the Pope's observation in Humanae Vitae that the wide-scale use of contraceptives would actually increase the number of unwanted pregnanices. We now have 40 years of data to prove that the Pope was right.

[Grizalltheway]

And how is the pope telling them not to use condoms, a proven method in combating HIV, helping the HIV problem?

Use of a condom reduces the risk of transmission of HIV in any single sexual encounter. However, it is doubtful that the wide-scale acceptance of condoms as a tool to fight HIV will decrease the total number of HIV transmissions. Follow the map. Condoms reduce the risk by 98%; but if 100 HIV-infected people have encounters using a condom, believing their conduct is safe, you have likely created 2 new HIV cases. This is why I call condom use "somewhat safer sex" rather than "safe sex." It is not entirely safe, as the term "safe sex" reasonably implies.

You probably won't accept this. But then again, the intellectual elite laughed at the Pope's observation in Humanae Vitae that the wide-scale use of contraceptives would actually increase the number of unwanted pregnanices. We now have 40 years of data to prove that the Pope was right.

As long as most African countries are desperately poor, they'll continue to have a lot of sex, with a lot of different people. What else are you going to do when you don't have a job, food, or even electronic entertainment like the western world? In fact, I believe the Indian government recently started an initiative to give televisions to as many people as possible in an effort to slow down over-population.

But anyway, I'd be interested to see this 40 years worth of data supporting the pope's theory that the use of contraception increases the number of unwanted pregnancies, Joe.

[JoltinJoe]

But anyway, I'd be interested to see this 40 years worth of data supporting the pope's theory that the use of contraception increases the number of unwanted pregnancies, Joe.

You aren't aware of the dramatic increase in unwanted pregnancies in the US in the past 40 years?

[Grizalltheway]

But anyway, I'd be interested to see this 40 years worth of data supporting the pope's theory that the use of contraception increases the number of unwanted pregnancies, Joe.

You aren't aware of the dramatic increase in unwanted pregnancies in the US in the past 40 years?

Again, data would be nice...

[JoltinJoe]

You aren't aware of the dramatic increase in unwanted pregnancies in the US in the past 40 years?

Again, data would be nice...

http://www.virginia.edu/marriageproject ... gnancy.pdf

[Appaholic]

Did I say EVERY Christian? Nope. Are there Christians in the US that would like to do the same? Very much so.

Just like not every Muslim wants to kill Americans, some Muslims do.

You didn't state that you were going after a smaller number of them. You just generalized Christians. I was actually on the GLBT Commitie at Hawkeye CC before I graduated. I have attended UNI Proud meetings (the GLBT group on campus).

I'm sure you didn't mean to generalize like that, but as a Christian who fully supports gay marriage and rights I hate being lumped in with those that don't.

Clenz, it might have been before your time but, historically, Christianity (being the dominant religion in America like Islam is in Middle East) was at the forefront of both ostraciszing gays & criminalizing their behavior. That's wonderful you are participating in GLBT support organizations. But I doubt it would be a stretch to assume that your view is probably in the minority at your place of worship...certainly with the over-35 crowd in your congregation. Sure, DBack may have over-generalized, but no more than others on this thread. Assuming that Jon, or any other gay man pursuing equal rights & access afforded to others in our society, is also pursuing indoctrinating or teaching children to be gay is a more damming over-generalization IMO (not directed at you).....

[native]

Homosexuality is NOT a learned behavior, unlike religion, prejudice and hatred.

BINGO.

You are either born a c*ck s*cker or a p*ssy muncher.......period.

That's your religious gospel and you stick to it no matter what.

[D1B]

Again, data would be nice...

http://www.virginia.edu/marriageproject ... gnancy.pdf

Joe, are you serious? This is your source?

[clenz]

Here is the US stats


http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstats.pdf

A more up to date link as of 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380323,00.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/07/10/te ... index.html


As of 2009 in England
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/ ... nancy-rise



And one for the anti-Bush crowd
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ju ... cdc-report

[mainejeff]

BINGO.

You are either born a c*ck s*cker or a p*ssy muncher.......period.

That's your religious gospel and you stick to it no matter what.

It's not religious gospel.......it is nature, genetics, biology. Sorry if you don't understand those terms.