Coronavirus COVID-19

[CID1990]

I’m telling you

Right now America looks really fucking stupid from Asia. Other European countries aren’t far behind.

The “you cant tell me what to do” crowd as well as the people who oppose them and then minimized the protests... right or left, Americans look really stupid right now

And the maddening thing about it is full on shutdowns arent necessary - just simple mask wearing, cleaning your dick beaters, and staying 6 feet away from people and community spread would literally be down to a trickle

And the REALLY irritating thing is that if we do these things ^^^^ right now, the virus would be largely shut down in about 4 weeks


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That ship has sailed....



...too soon?

That ship is sitting at the dock, waiting patiently for us to pull our collective heads out of our asses


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[Pwns]

I would argue America's individualist tendencies aren't the problem here.

The biggest problem is a lack of (what some have called) institutional trust. The biggest and most obvious one is the elite US media, and let's face it, they have more than earned the lack of trust even before their ridiculous looking past mass protests, and the fact that we're in an election year is just aggravating that. If you'd told me a few years ago I'd have the BBC on my list of go-to outlets for news in the US I would've told you you're on crack, but here we are.

The scientific and medical establishments haven't done as much to erode trust, but they're trying to catch up with their talk of "decolonizing science", signing letters in support of protests, WHO kowtowing to the Chicoms, among other things.

[Gil Dobie]

I would argue America's individualist tendencies aren't the problem here.

The biggest problem is a lack of (what some have called) institutional trust. The biggest and most obvious one is the elite US media, and let's face it, they have more than earned the lack of trust even before their ridiculous looking past mass protests, and the fact that we're in an election year is just aggravating that. If you'd told me a few years ago I'd have the BBC on my list of go-to outlets for news in the US I would've told you you're on crack, but here we are.

The scientific and medical establishments haven't done as much to erode trust, but they're trying to catch up with their talk of "decolonizing science", signing letters in support of protests, WHO kowtowing to the Chicoms, among other things.

I've been following what the Mayo Clinic has to say about masks.

Can face masks help prevent the spread of the coronavirus that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't yet know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

These discoveries led the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to do an about-face on face masks. The CDC updated its guidance to recommend widespread use of simple cloth face coverings to help prevent transmission of the virus by people who have COVID-19 but don't know it.

Some public health groups argue that masks should be reserved for health care providers and point to the critical shortage of surgical masks and N95 masks. The CDC acknowledged this concern when it recommended cloth masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers.

[kalm]

I would argue America's individualist tendencies aren't the problem here.

The biggest problem is a lack of (what some have called) institutional trust. The biggest and most obvious one is the elite US media, and let's face it, they have more than earned the lack of trust even before their ridiculous looking past mass protests, and the fact that we're in an election year is just aggravating that. If you'd told me a few years ago I'd have the BBC on my list of go-to outlets for news in the US I would've told you you're on crack, but here we are.

The scientific and medical establishments haven't done as much to erode trust, but they're trying to catch up with their talk of "decolonizing science", signing letters in support of protests, WHO kowtowing to the Chicoms, among other things.

I think there’s some truth here. Polarization/politicalization of news sources and simple things like wearing masks.

But individualist culture by nature is more self centered for better or for worse and in this case it plays a negative roll.

[GannonFan]

I would argue America's individualist tendencies aren't the problem here.

The biggest problem is a lack of (what some have called) institutional trust. The biggest and most obvious one is the elite US media, and let's face it, they have more than earned the lack of trust even before their ridiculous looking past mass protests, and the fact that we're in an election year is just aggravating that. If you'd told me a few years ago I'd have the BBC on my list of go-to outlets for news in the US I would've told you you're on crack, but here we are.

The scientific and medical establishments haven't done as much to erode trust, but they're trying to catch up with their talk of "decolonizing science", signing letters in support of protests, WHO kowtowing to the Chicoms, among other things.

I think it's both. We, as a nation, take being a jerk to heart - it's our God-given right to do whatever the heck we want to do, so some people take that to the extreme and say "wear a mask? wash my hands? keep a social distance? screw that!". So there's that.

But I think you're right on the institutional thing as well. We knew back in late April that wearing a mask, washing your hands, and keeping social distance would be enough to slow the spread. But here we are in late June and many states, while technically "open", still have significant restrictions. In PA, this Friday will make when you can get haircuts or go to a gym or so on. Why, knowing what we did almost 2 months ago, did we not loosen that restriction earlier? Our institutions don't make themselves more trustworthy when they take steps that aren't backed up by the data and science, yet claim to be relying on the data and the science. We made villains out of the wackos protesting at state capitals two months ago (and they were admittedly some wackos) but they had a point - we knew what the restrictions had to be, yet we held on to the more restrictive restrictions longer than we had to.

And of course, and CID mentioned this, the politics in this country seeps into everything, and that's made this a cluster as well.

[AZGrizFan]

On April 21, 2693 Americans died from COVID.

On June 21, 267 Americans died from COVID. That’s a NINETY PERCENT decrease in the death rate in 60 days.

The 7-day moving average has dropped from a peak of 2187 to just 619/day. 619. A 71.7% decrease in 60 days.

The weekly death rate has dropped for 8 straight weeks.

Yet there are still fear porn mongers out there trying to re-shut down the country.

This thing, by all appearances and except for a few minor hot spots, appears to have run its course. The majority of new cases are in young, healthy people who don’t get sick/hospitalized/die at NEAR the rate of all the old folks who got taken out in the early stages.

Let’s get back to work, America.

[Silenoz]

Had we not had the lock downs, the virus numbers would have been really high. Like you implied, no way to social distance heart disease or cancer.

I’m telling you

Right now America looks really fucking stupid from Asia. Other European countries aren’t far behind.

The “you cant tell me what to do” crowd as well as the people who oppose them and then minimized the protests... right or left, Americans look really stupid right now

And the maddening thing about it is full on shutdowns arent necessary - just simple mask wearing, cleaning your dick beaters, and staying 6 feet away from people and community spread would literally be down to a trickle

And the REALLY irritating thing is that if we do these things ^^^^ right now, the virus would be largely shut down in about 4 weeks


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You can't tell us what to do

It was a hoax. Actually the media did it. Actually Trump did it. Actually the protesters did it. Actually the white supremacists did it. Actually Sean Hannity did it. Actually that Swedish girl did it. Actually 5G did it. Actually the Democrats and Pelosi did it. Actually The WHO did it. Actually it's just the flu. Actually Bush did it. Actually Bill Gates did it.

Someone's to blame, but it's NOT ME.

-signed everyone

[∞∞∞]

Sounds like Trump ad libbed that or something. White House is walking it back. Perhaps they realized it was a ridiculously stupid idea after the speech. Not sure.

He did say that, though:

The travel ban itself is a dumb idea, especially if you're going to simply exempt the UK. The virus is already here, spreading. The response we need is here in the United States, not travel bans that are a month behind.

That speech was a weak response, at best.

If anything, Europe should ban us for traveling there.

Well, EU is discussing this.

Good for them to be honest.

[dbackjon]

On April 21, 2693 Americans died from COVID.

On June 21, 267 Americans died from COVID. That’s a NINETY PERCENT decrease in the death rate in 60 days.

The 7-day moving average has dropped from a peak of 2187 to just 619/day. 619. A 71.7% decrease in 60 days.

The weekly death rate has dropped for 8 straight weeks.

Yet there are still fear porn mongers out there trying to re-shut down the country.

This thing, by all appearances and except for a few minor hot spots, appears to have run its course. The majority of new cases are in young, healthy people who don’t get sick/hospitalized/die at NEAR the rate of all the old folks who got taken out in the early stages.

Let’s get back to work, America.

You just don't get it, do you?

Deaths are low now because of the measures taken months ago. You won't start seeing the death numbers high again for another few weeks.

The GOP/Trump fucked the country over, hard. No one with a brain is going out and spending time in restaurants, bars, etc. Why? Because they are fucking stupid.

Run it's course? New highs in cases in over half the country. Texas, Arizona, Florida, most of the Sun Belt - the virus is just getting going after the botched re-openings in those states.


Closing in on 900 dead today.

The denialism is wrecking the economy.

[AZGrizFan]

On April 21, 2693 Americans died from COVID.

On June 21, 267 Americans died from COVID. That’s a NINETY PERCENT decrease in the death rate in 60 days.

The 7-day moving average has dropped from a peak of 2187 to just 619/day. 619. A 71.7% decrease in 60 days.

The weekly death rate has dropped for 8 straight weeks.

Yet there are still fear porn mongers out there trying to re-shut down the country.

This thing, by all appearances and except for a few minor hot spots, appears to have run its course. The majority of new cases are in young, healthy people who don’t get sick/hospitalized/die at NEAR the rate of all the old folks who got taken out in the early stages.

Let’s get back to work, America.

You just don't get it, do you?

Deaths are low now because of the measures taken months ago. You won't start seeing the death numbers high again for another few weeks.

The GOP/Trump fucked the country over, hard. No one with a brain is going out and spending time in restaurants, bars, etc. Why? Because they are fucking stupid.

Run it's course? New highs in cases in over half the country. Texas, Arizona, Florida, most of the Sun Belt - the virus is just getting going after the botched re-openings in those states.


Closing in on 900 dead today.

The denialism is wrecking the economy.

Ah....the old “just wait a couple weeks” argument.

Jon, try, just TRY to look at this objectively and not through a political lease for just a moment. On May 1st when the red state governors started opening their states (with protocols), the cry from the left was “In two weeks we’re fucked!”. Yet since 4/21 deaths (8 straight weeks) have trended steadily downward (on average). There’s been no “surge” despite the country opening more and more and more—in fact quite the opposite. On May 25th George Floyd was killed and riots started across the country. The right said “wait for the surge in two weeks, we’re fucked!” Here we sit almost a full month later, and no surge in deaths. And now Trump held a rally last weekend and we have to “wait for the surge in two weeks, we’re fucked!”.

And yes, CASES are going up in certain areas (mostly because of more and more increased testing), but DEATHS are going down across the country (with a few exceptions). Why could that be? Hmmmm....maybe because the folks who are now out there moving around and working and getting the virus are young, healthy individuals and those at risk (elderly and sick) have remained home for the most part. It’s a PROVEN fact beyond a shadow of a doubt that the death rate in those healthy individuals under age 65 is 1/10th of the rate of those sick and over 65. And it’s the WORK FORCE that’s back out there. Not retirees (for the most part).

And yes, the protocols that have been implemented certainly have helped slow/stop the spread. Keep ‘em in place for the time being.

There’s also a mounting body of evidence (latest in a long list of studies is from Penn State University) that this virus was in America MUCH, much sooner than first thought, that it had already infected 60-80 MILLION by early January and that unless someone was clairvoyant and had shut down the country in November there was virtually nothing that was going to stop the spread. That’s why, as testing sites increase and # of tests increases, more and more people are found to have or have had the virus.

And as far as Trump is concerned, yeah, he fucked up. He fucked up by destroying the economy by fixing a crack in the windshield with a sledgehammer. Hindsight tells us that shutting down the country did ZERO good. THey should have mandated masks from the beginning (thanks WHO), mandated enhanced hygiene (for both individuals and businesses), implemented social distancing where possible, and then moved the fuck on. Instead we crushed the economy and now have to spend the next 12-18 months trying to rebuild and recapture the momentum that we had as a country.

But hey, let’s revisit this in a couple weeks, bud. The first three “In two weeks we’re fucked” mantras have been blatantly wrong, but who knows? Texas is seeing (on average) 4,000 new cases a day over the past 7 days. Based off previous data (April/early May) where they were experiencing about 1,000 cases a day, that’s a 4X increase in cases, so we should see a 4X increase in deaths in about 2 weeks. The 3-day moving average for Texas bounced between 25-40 deaths per day during that same period. Let’s see what it is in 2 weeks....should be between 100-160.

Then we’ll see who is right and who is wrong.

P.S. 58% of the deaths were in nursing homes in 4 states (NY, NJ, MI and IL). Imagine if those Blue governors had done the RIGHT thing instead of the stupid thing. Then we WOULD be looking at something that looks just like a flu season.

[kalm]

On April 21, 2693 Americans died from COVID.

On June 21, 267 Americans died from COVID. That’s a NINETY PERCENT decrease in the death rate in 60 days.

The 7-day moving average has dropped from a peak of 2187 to just 619/day. 619. A 71.7% decrease in 60 days.

The weekly death rate has dropped for 8 straight weeks.

Yet there are still fear porn mongers out there trying to re-shut down the country.

This thing, by all appearances and except for a few minor hot spots, appears to have run its course. The majority of new cases are in young, healthy people who don’t get sick/hospitalized/die at NEAR the rate of all the old folks who got taken out in the early stages.

Let’s get back to work, America.

You just don't get it, do you?

Deaths are low now because of the measures taken months ago. You won't start seeing the death numbers high again for another few weeks.

The GOP/Trump fucked the country over, hard. No one with a brain is going out and spending time in restaurants, bars, etc. Why? Because they are fucking stupid.

Run it's course? New highs in cases in over half the country. Texas, Arizona, Florida, most of the Sun Belt - the virus is just getting going after the botched re-openings in those states.


Closing in on 900 dead today.

The denialism is wrecking the economy.

Nope. He doesn’t. And even if he’s half right, it won’t change policy or economics. Multiple genies out of the bottle.

Rollercoaster rates and restrictions well into next year even for places like Texas and Florida. Their rollercoasters will simply be less stable tracks.

WA State released a new mandate today requiring masks in all public places indoors and out. Drove by a local lake with a county park and it looked like goddamned Dayton Beach in Florida. Counted 16 people entering and leaving the convenience store including a delivery guy. Me and the clerk were the only two wearing.

Likely heading back to phase 1, which will hurt our business because we’ll be back on single rider carts and adding mask requirements for non-household groups as well as no leagues or tournaments....Because people can’t wear a gawdamned mask and practice social distancing.

The communist dictator Inslee will be blamed for shit he warned people about in March.

[AZGrizFan]

TX hospital snapshot from this morning:

14,697 beds avail, up 996 (7.3%) from 2 days ago

1517 ICU beds avail, up 68 (4.7%) from 2 days ago.

and this is despite a drop in reported overall beds.

looks like hospitals overall are emptying, not filling.

not seeing this capacity crisis in the data

[kalm]

TX hospital snapshot from this morning:

14,697 beds avail, up 996 (7.3%) from 2 days ago

1517 ICU beds avail, up 68 (4.7%) from 2 days ago.

and this is despite a drop in reported overall beds.

looks like hospitals overall are emptying, not filling.

not seeing this capacity crisis in the data

Many locations don’t report on weekends. Running 7 day numbers are better. We’ll continue to have peaks and valleys reopens and re-closures for a much longer time because too many people think it’s a hoax or fear porn, or freedom!

[AZGrizFan]

TX hospital snapshot from this morning:

14,697 beds avail, up 996 (7.3%) from 2 days ago

1517 ICU beds avail, up 68 (4.7%) from 2 days ago.

and this is despite a drop in reported overall beds.

looks like hospitals overall are emptying, not filling.

not seeing this capacity crisis in the data

Many locations don’t report on weekends. Running 7 day numbers are better. We’ll continue to have peaks and valleys reopens and re-closures for a much longer time because too many people think it’s a hoax or fear porn, or freedom!

Uh....It’s Tuesday.

[SDHornet]

JuSt TwO MoRe WeEkS

[Gil Dobie]

The deaths lag a couple weeks behind case increases. One restaurateur must passed away in Nebraska, after 2.5 months on a vent. Not a fun way to go. Hate to watch people die like that, even if they were 71.

[CID1990]

On April 21, 2693 Americans died from COVID.

On June 21, 267 Americans died from COVID. That’s a NINETY PERCENT decrease in the death rate in 60 days.

The 7-day moving average has dropped from a peak of 2187 to just 619/day. 619. A 71.7% decrease in 60 days.

The weekly death rate has dropped for 8 straight weeks.

Yet there are still fear porn mongers out there trying to re-shut down the country.

This thing, by all appearances and except for a few minor hot spots, appears to have run its course. The majority of new cases are in young, healthy people who don’t get sick/hospitalized/die at NEAR the rate of all the old folks who got taken out in the early stages.

Let’s get back to work, America.

You just don't get it, do you?

Deaths are low now because of the measures taken months ago. You won't start seeing the death numbers high again for another few weeks.

The GOP/Trump fucked the country over, hard. No one with a brain is going out and spending time in restaurants, bars, etc. Why? Because they are fucking stupid.

Run it's course? New highs in cases in over half the country. Texas, Arizona, Florida, most of the Sun Belt - the virus is just getting going after the botched re-openings in those states.


Closing in on 900 dead today.

The denialism is wrecking the economy.

I love how this is all Trump’s fault

Or all the governors’ faults (choose your D or R)

Or racetracks and tractor pulls

Or BLM and associated protests

I have a news flash for you, Jon... the lack of social distancing, mask wearing, and basic hygiene are far and away the biggest cause of the surge we are now seeing... not opening businesses with precautions.

I am sitting in a country that is almost completely free of the virus after an initial outbreak, and is almost completely back to work. And there are two reasons for this: social distancing/masks, a short shutdown, and a ban on all international arrivals. Those three things taken together would be criticized by BOTH the left and right in America ... because they have been already

And literally NOBODY in America has the moral high ground to point fingers at any one side or the other


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[SDHornet]

You just don't get it, do you?

Deaths are low now because of the measures taken months ago. You won't start seeing the death numbers high again for another few weeks.

The GOP/Trump fucked the country over, hard. No one with a brain is going out and spending time in restaurants, bars, etc. Why? Because they are fucking stupid.

Run it's course? New highs in cases in over half the country. Texas, Arizona, Florida, most of the Sun Belt - the virus is just getting going after the botched re-openings in those states.


Closing in on 900 dead today.

The denialism is wrecking the economy.

I love how this is all Trump’s fault

Or all the governors’ faults (choose your D or R)

Or racetracks and tractor pulls

Or BLM and associated protests

I have a news flash for you, Jon... the lack of social distancing, mask wearing, and basic hygiene are far and away the biggest cause of the surge we are now seeing... not opening businesses with precautions.

I am sitting in a country that is almost completely free of the virus after an initial outbreak, and is almost completely back to work. And there are two reasons for this: social distancing/masks, a short shutdown, and a ban on all international arrivals. Those three things taken together would be criticized by BOTH the left and right in America ... because they have been already

And literally NOBODY in America has the moral high ground to point fingers at any one side or the other


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But banning flights from foreign countries is xenophobic.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/oregon-c ... benshapiro

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

This is a huge scam its a weaker version of the flu just not as deadly like I said back in January.

[kalm]

Many locations don’t report on weekends. Running 7 day numbers are better. We’ll continue to have peaks and valleys reopens and re-closures for a much longer time because too many people think it’s a hoax or fear porn, or freedom!

Uh....It’s Tuesday.

Fair enough but it seems like it’s been taking a couple days for numbers to be accurately accounted for from counties to state dashboards with revisions and anomalies common.

Arizona, Texas, California, and Florida have been breaking hospitalization rates almost daily of late.

[Gil Dobie]

Uh....It’s Tuesday.

Fair enough but it seems like it’s been taking a couple days for numbers to be accurately accounted for from counties to state dashboards with revisions and anomalies common.

Arizona, Texas, California, and Florida have been breaking hospitalization rates almost daily of late.

One point on hospitalizations. A state's total and percent may look great, but if you look at the hotspots, that's where the issues of limited ICU's become apparent. North Dakota for example, most of the state's hospitals may have a lot of vacant rooms, but a hotspot like Fargo might look more crowded.

[kalm]

Fair enough but it seems like it’s been taking a couple days for numbers to be accurately accounted for from counties to state dashboards with revisions and anomalies common.

Arizona, Texas, California, and Florida have been breaking hospitalization rates almost daily of late.

One point on hospitalizations. A state's total and percent may look great, but if you look at the hotspots, that's where the issues of limited ICU's become apparent. North Dakota for example, most of the state's hospitals may have a lot of vacant rooms, but a hotspot like Fargo might look more crowded.

Yep. Like I mentioned, Yakima County is flying patients to Seattle’s Harborview. There are a couple more counties approaching that level which will lower the beds in the places they’re being flown to.

[Ivytalk]

Delaware just added 67 “new” deaths. They have to do a better job with counting those stiffs.

[UNI88]

Why the Central Bank "Bailout of Everything" Will Be a Disaster

There is an important risk in what I call the "bailout of everything," or the conscious decision by governments and central banks to provide any needed support to all sectors and companies with access to debt. Most of these stimulus packages and liquidity measures are aimed at supporting current government spending and providing liquidity to companies with assets, with access to debt, and in traditional sectors. It is not a surprise, then, that at the same time as we see the largest fiscal and monetary support plan since World War II, we are already witnessing two dangerous collateral effects: the rise of zombie companies and the collapse of small businesses and startups.