Coronavirus COVID-19

[Winterborn]

Recently there have been stories about some intelligence agencies saying they think it more likely than not that the virus that causes COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) started with a lab leak. Tonight I'm seeing the FBI director saying that.

I think it is important to note that the scientific community does not think that. Yesterday I heard this interview with infectious disease expert Michael Osterholm: https://www.npr.org/.../how-an-infectio ... ase-expert...

Here is a key Osterholm quote:



Here is an analysis from last summer: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

A quote:



Here is a Johns Hopkins article on that study: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/origins-of-sars-cov-2

A quote:



I have been looking and I have seen nothing to indicate that the overwhelming majority opinion among the scientific community has changed from being reflected by that statement.

I think our intelligence agencies are great. But when it comes to this question, I personally am more inclined to go with what the scientific community associated with virology and epidemiology thinks. And, as far as I can tell, the overwhelming majority opinion in that community is that it was not a lab leak.

I’m just bookmarking for the grave I plan to dance on later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If JSO was around in the 1610's, Galileo's letter to Kepler would describe to a "T" JSO's mindset.

My dear Kepler, I wish that we might laugh at the remarkable stupidity of the common herd. What do you have to say about the principal philosophers of this academy who are filled with the stubbornness of an asp and do not want to look at either the planets, the moon or the telescope, even though I have freely and deliberately offered them the opportunity a thousand times? Truly, just as the asp stops its ears, so do these philosophers shut their eyes to the light of truth.

[Winterborn]

There’s nothing wrong with healthy skepticism…especially in government.

I spat out my coffee with your SG - JSO comparison.

Your biased opinion doesn't move the needle. I will revise my opinion that SG has been right more than JSO on this thread if Ganny and Ibanez tell me that I'm wrong and JSO has been right more than SG.

I am not Ganny or Ibanez (shudder.....), but I will give you my .

COVID was accidentally released from a shoddy Chinese lab that was directly funded by the EcoHealth Alliance doing gain of function research that was illegal to do here in the U.S. and those funds were directed to EcoHealth Alliance at the orders of Fauci, as an end run around the rules he didn't agree with or as a way to funnel money into other areas for favors (there are probably multiple reasons, both good and bad that the money went were it did).

The coverup/suppression of the above started within weeks (February 2020) when Fauci realized that his name would come out as a primary funder of the research that directly led to this. He did what any career bureaucrat excels at, and that is muddying the waters enough to divert attention away from anything that hinted it might come back to implicate him (i.e. the commissioned paper that it wasn't from a lab). Throw in the media's revulsion of all things Trump and he had a willing patsy to peddle his false narrative that Trump's comments on it might be from a lab were wrong. Once the narrative was set and rolling, it took on a life of its own as people in power (media, politicians, etc.) had a vested interest in keeping it going, because to do otherwise would imply that they were wrong. Spreading around millions in new grant dollars and holding hostage existing grant dollars via proxy (they would go away if people started digging into COVID's origins), meant that Fauci (and others) had significant reason in doing what they did.

The COVID shot aka "vaccine" (and the furor around it) was peddled to keep the above narrative going and as a distraction from people digging into the history of where COVID 19 came from. The narrative snowballed into justifying lock-downs, mass forced shots, and usurpation of freedoms (making hay while the sun shines), etc.. The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis. But good business for Big Pharma, hence the mandates.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

The whole last three or so years is easily explainable through people not wanting to admit they were wrong (ego), people realizing they would be caught breaking the law, and people believing the government had their best interest in mind (this last point is my opinion and is greatly dependent on ones political and mental processes).

[GannonFan]

Your biased opinion doesn't move the needle. I will revise my opinion that SG has been right more than JSO on this thread if Ganny and Ibanez tell me that I'm wrong and JSO has been right more than SG.

I am not Ganny or Ibanez (shudder.....), but I will give you my .

COVID was accidentally released from a shoddy Chinese lab that was directly funded by the EcoHealth Alliance doing gain of function research that was illegal to do here in the U.S. and those funds were directed to EcoHealth Alliance at the orders of Fauci, as an end run around the rules he didn't agree with or as a way to funnel money into other areas for favors (there are probably multiple reasons, both good and bad that the money went were it did).

The coverup/suppression of the above started within weeks (February 2020) when Fauci realized that his name would come out as a primary funder of the research that directly led to this. He did what any career bureaucrat excels at, and that is muddying the waters enough to divert attention away from anything that hinted it might come back to implicate him (i.e. the commissioned paper that it wasn't from a lab). Throw in the media's revulsion of all things Trump and he had a willing patsy to peddle his false narrative that Trump's comments on it might be from a lab were wrong. Once the narrative was set and rolling, it took on a life of its own as people in power (media, politicians, etc.) had a vested interest in keeping it going, because to do otherwise would imply that they were wrong. Spreading around millions in new grant dollars and holding hostage existing grant dollars via proxy (they would go away if people started digging into COVID's origins), meant that Fauci (and others) had significant reason in doing what they did.

The COVID shot aka "vaccine" (and the furor around it) was peddled to keep the above narrative going and as a distraction from people digging into the history of where COVID 19 came from. The narrative snowballed into justifying lock-downs, mass forced shots, and usurpation of freedoms (making hay while the sun shines), etc.. The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis. But good business for Big Pharma, hence the mandates.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

The whole last three or so years is easily explainable through people not wanting to admit they were wrong (ego), people realizing they would be caught breaking the law, and people believing the government had their best interest in mind (this last point is my opinion and is greatly dependent on ones political and mental processes).

Sounds pretty spot on. Well done.

[Winterborn]

Sounds pretty spot on. Well done.

Thank you.

[BDKJMU]

I am not Ganny or Ibanez (shudder.....), but I will give you my .

COVID was accidentally released from a shoddy Chinese lab that was directly funded by the EcoHealth Alliance doing gain of function research that was illegal to do here in the U.S. and those funds were directed to EcoHealth Alliance at the orders of Fauci, as an end run around the rules he didn't agree with or as a way to funnel money into other areas for favors (there are probably multiple reasons, both good and bad that the money went were it did).

The coverup/suppression of the above started within weeks (February 2020) when Fauci realized that his name would come out as a primary funder of the research that directly led to this. He did what any career bureaucrat excels at, and that is muddying the waters enough to divert attention away from anything that hinted it might come back to implicate him (i.e. the commissioned paper that it wasn't from a lab). Throw in the media's revulsion of all things Trump and he had a willing patsy to peddle his false narrative that Trump's comments on it might be from a lab were wrong. Once the narrative was set and rolling, it took on a life of its own as people in power (media, politicians, etc.) had a vested interest in keeping it going, because to do otherwise would imply that they were wrong. Spreading around millions in new grant dollars and holding hostage existing grant dollars via proxy (they would go away if people started digging into COVID's origins), meant that Fauci (and others) had significant reason in doing what they did.

The COVID shot aka "vaccine" (and the furor around it) was peddled to keep the above narrative going and as a distraction from people digging into the history of where COVID 19 came from. The narrative snowballed into justifying lock-downs, mass forced shots, and usurpation of freedoms (making hay while the sun shines), etc.. The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis. But good business for Big Pharma, hence the mandates.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

The whole last three or so years is easily explainable through people not wanting to admit they were wrong (ego), people realizing they would be caught breaking the law, and people believing the government had their best interest in mind (this last point is my opinion and is greatly dependent on ones political and mental processes).

Sounds pretty spot on. Well done.

Agreed. Now get ready for the JSO 10k word rebuttal with links and graphs..

[SeattleGriz]

Your biased opinion doesn't move the needle. I will revise my opinion that SG has been right more than JSO on this thread if Ganny and Ibanez tell me that I'm wrong and JSO has been right more than SG.

I am not Ganny or Ibanez (shudder.....), but I will give you my .

COVID was accidentally released from a shoddy Chinese lab that was directly funded by the EcoHealth Alliance doing gain of function research that was illegal to do here in the U.S. and those funds were directed to EcoHealth Alliance at the orders of Fauci, as an end run around the rules he didn't agree with or as a way to funnel money into other areas for favors (there are probably multiple reasons, both good and bad that the money went were it did).

The coverup/suppression of the above started within weeks (February 2020) when Fauci realized that his name would come out as a primary funder of the research that directly led to this. He did what any career bureaucrat excels at, and that is muddying the waters enough to divert attention away from anything that hinted it might come back to implicate him (i.e. the commissioned paper that it wasn't from a lab). Throw in the media's revulsion of all things Trump and he had a willing patsy to peddle his false narrative that Trump's comments on it might be from a lab were wrong. Once the narrative was set and rolling, it took on a life of its own as people in power (media, politicians, etc.) had a vested interest in keeping it going, because to do otherwise would imply that they were wrong. Spreading around millions in new grant dollars and holding hostage existing grant dollars via proxy (they would go away if people started digging into COVID's origins), meant that Fauci (and others) had significant reason in doing what they did.

The COVID shot aka "vaccine" (and the furor around it) was peddled to keep the above narrative going and as a distraction from people digging into the history of where COVID 19 came from. The narrative snowballed into justifying lock-downs, mass forced shots, and usurpation of freedoms (making hay while the sun shines), etc.. The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis. But good business for Big Pharma, hence the mandates.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

The whole last three or so years is easily explainable through people not wanting to admit they were wrong (ego), people realizing they would be caught breaking the law, and people believing the government had their best interest in mind (this last point is my opinion and is greatly dependent on ones political and mental processes).

True, buts it's also a technology they've wanted to bring to market for years but couldn't because it couldn't pass specs. Get those specs lowered and bam. New product with a liability shield.

They'll eventually make the technology better, but in the meantime, it's causes a lot more issues than non mRNA vaccines. I will say I think a big part of that has to do with poor metabolic health.

[Winterborn]

True, buts it's also a technology they've wanted to bring to market for years but couldn't because it couldn't pass specs. Get those specs lowered and bam. New product with a liability shield.

They'll eventually make the technology better, but in the meantime, it's causes a lot more issues than non mRNA vaccines. I will say I think a big part of that has to do with poor metabolic health.

I will be the first to admit that my knowledge of mRNA procedures and process is limited (which is why I only briefly touched upon them in my post) but the fact that companies (pharmaceutical in this case) wanted the restrictions lowered and protection from liability is not new. I would be more surprised that they didn't take advantage of COVID and also wouldn't be shocked if some of the grant money that Fauci controlled is eventually linked back to projects related both mRNA work or other projects the drug companies have in the works.

I have no evidence of that other than my experience with working with Federal Government agencies/departments that handle that sort of thing. Tit-for-tat goes on all the time.

mRNA technology is interesting (as it does have potential) but I want to know ALL the risks before going down that path treatment wise. The fact that we didn't and it is still being pushed on a segment of the population that it not only does no good, but has a strong chance of causing harm, is typical behavior of a "benevolent" government that has our best interests in mind.

Just saw that Canada as well has restricted use of the "vaccines" to only a very specific segment of the population that is most at risk.

[SeattleGriz]

True, buts it's also a technology they've wanted to bring to market for years but couldn't because it couldn't pass specs. Get those specs lowered and bam. New product with a liability shield.

They'll eventually make the technology better, but in the meantime, it's causes a lot more issues than non mRNA vaccines. I will say I think a big part of that has to do with poor metabolic health.

I will be the first to admit that my knowledge of mRNA procedures and process is limited (which is why I only briefly touched upon them in my post) but the fact that companies (pharmaceutical in this case) wanted the restrictions lowered and protection from liability is not new. I would be more surprised that they didn't take advantage of COVID and also wouldn't be shocked if some of the grant money that Fauci controlled is eventually linked back to projects related both mRNA work or other projects the drug companies have in the works.

I have no evidence of that other than my experience with working with Federal Government agencies/departments that handle that sort of thing. Tit-for-tat goes on all the time.

mRNA technology is interesting (as it does have potential) but I want to know ALL the risks before going down that path treatment wise. The fact that we didn't and it is still being pushed on a segment of the population that it not only does no good, but has a strong chance of causing harm, is typical behavior of a "benevolent" government that has our best interests in mind.

Just saw that Canada as well has restricted use of the "vaccines" to only a very specific segment of the population that is most at risk.

Agreed, and that is why genetic drugs are supposed to have a 5 year period of specific testing as opposed to 2 for traditional vaccines. That obviously isn't the whole testing package, but shows there are significant differences in protocol.

The sad part was the usual censoring of history. mRNA has had troubles for two reasons. When used in reasonable doses, it wasn't very effective and when the dose was increased to counter the problem, it caused increased issues among the test subjects.

There is a reason they had not been able to bring it to market even with all the previous efforts. From Nature:

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines


Hundreds of scientists had worked on mRNA vaccines for decades before the coronavirus pandemic brought a breakthrough.

[SeattleGriz]

Feel free to point out the fallacious logic.

I’m not sure what you don’t understand about viral antibodies:

they are those wee little magical things that *actually* stop viruses from multiplying inside the cells of your body

In the world of science and medicine that’s what is called “immunity”. It is really that simple.

More antibodies = more immunity

If you know of examples where some virus has not followed this very elementary biological maxim, I’ll be happy to entertain them. But specifics, please. I noticed in your last two replies you started to retreat into a bit of that klam-like vagueness so you can later claim you said nothing of the sort.


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I was pointing out your propensity to call scientific studies word salad and implying I don't understand what I posted.

Okay, back on topic. On your side, you have said the vaccine targeted the S protein and that antibodies = immunity.

On my side, I said that in many instances, Immunologists and Public Health officials declare natural immunity superior to vaccine immunity.

Also provided three studies that show:
1) Natural immunity targets the whole virus
2) Natural immunity shows a robust interferon response together with an induction of cytotoxic gene expression in peripheral blood lymphocytes
3) Out of 55,000 patients, 3300 were reinfected with ALL of those coming from the vaccinated pool and not the natural immunity pool.

Lastly, I pointed out that people still have antibodies to the SARS1 virus, which shares a great percentage of similarity with SARS2, thus lending to the belief the immunity will be long lasting.

We haven't even gotten to the variants and need for boosters.

Since he's lurking. This take didn't age well. Antibodies (wee little magical things)=immunity!

If he's going to call Jelli, Reek, he needs to be called out on this. The sad part is he walked out into shallow water and drowned himself.

[UNI88]

I was pointing out your propensity to call scientific studies word salad and implying I don't understand what I posted.

Okay, back on topic. On your side, you have said the vaccine targeted the S protein and that antibodies = immunity.

On my side, I said that in many instances, Immunologists and Public Health officials declare natural immunity superior to vaccine immunity.

Also provided three studies that show:
1) Natural immunity targets the whole virus
2) Natural immunity shows a robust interferon response together with an induction of cytotoxic gene expression in peripheral blood lymphocytes
3) Out of 55,000 patients, 3300 were reinfected with ALL of those coming from the vaccinated pool and not the natural immunity pool.

Lastly, I pointed out that people still have antibodies to the SARS1 virus, which shares a great percentage of similarity with SARS2, thus lending to the belief the immunity will be long lasting.

We haven't even gotten to the variants and need for boosters.

Since he's lurking. This take didn't age well. Antibodies (wee little magical things)=immunity!

If he's going to call Jelli, Reek, he needs to be called out on this. The sad part is he walked out into shallow water and drowned himself.

So CID's post here was like hundreds of your posts in the Ukraine thread?

[SeattleGriz]

Since he's lurking. This take didn't age well. Antibodies (wee little magical things)=immunity!

If he's going to call Jelli, Reek, he needs to be called out on this. The sad part is he walked out into shallow water and drowned himself.

So CID's post here was like hundreds of your posts in the Ukraine thread?

Nice try, not even close.

[UNI88]

So CID's post here was like hundreds of your posts in the Ukraine thread?

Nice try, not even close.

You're right. Your Ukrainian posts are more JSOlike than CIDlike.

[SeattleGriz]

Nice try, not even close.

You're right. Your Ukrainian posts are more JSOlike than CIDlike.

Still can't admit you've been duped into hating a new villain? You really believe that if Ukraine somehow wins, the Ukrainians are going to get their country back with all it's resources intact?

The IMF already forced them to start selling their farmland. I'm sure there won't be any big businesses backing Ukrainian "investors" and exfiltrating that wealth. Just keep believing it's all about "saving" Ukraine and it has nothing to do with money.

[UNI88]

You're right. Your Ukrainian posts are more JSOlike than CIDlike.

Still can't admit you've been duped into hating a new villain? You really believe that if Ukraine somehow wins, the Ukrainians are going to get their country back with all it's resources intact?

The IMF already forced them to start selling their farmland. I'm sure there won't be any big businesses backing Ukrainian "investors" and exfiltrating that wealth. Just keep believing it's all about "saving" Ukraine and it has nothing to do with money.

What would have happened if the West hadn't and weren't supporting Ukraine? Do you really believe that the Russians were going to give them their country back? That the Russians weren't going to take their farmland and exfiltrate their wealth?

They were in a lose-lose situation from the beginning and the West didn't put them there, Putin and the Russians did.

The Ukrainians decided to fight and asked for the West's help. They didn't want to negotiate because they knew that negotiation would just delay a Russian takeover and the eventual end of the Ukrainian nation and its people.

[SeattleGriz]

Still can't admit you've been duped into hating a new villain? You really believe that if Ukraine somehow wins, the Ukrainians are going to get their country back with all it's resources intact?

The IMF already forced them to start selling their farmland. I'm sure there won't be any big businesses backing Ukrainian "investors" and exfiltrating that wealth. Just keep believing it's all about "saving" Ukraine and it has nothing to do with money.

What would have happened if the West hadn't and weren't supporting Ukraine? Do you really believe that the Russians were going to give them their country back? That the Russians weren't going to take their farmland and exfiltrate their wealth?

They were in a lose-lose situation from the beginning and the West didn't put them there, Putin and the Russians did.

The Ukrainians decided to fight and asked for the West's help. They didn't want to negotiate because they knew that negotiation would just delay a Russian takeover and the eventual end of the Ukrainian nation and its people.

Russia and Ukraine didn't seem to have problems before the US pushed out the pro Russian leader, but don't take it from me. Take it from "fuck the EU" Victoria Nuland.

Why didn't Russia storm in all those years ago, before Ukraine had 8 years to build up their military with the help of NATO? Your claim makes no sense.

I love that I'm arguing Ukraine in the COVID thread with you and COVID in the Ukraine thread with Klam. Slow day apparently.

[Skjellyfetti]

Russia and Ukraine didn't seem to have problems before the US pushed out the pro Russian leader, but don't take it from me. Take it from "fuck the EU" Victoria Nuland.

Russia and Ukraine got along fine prior to 2014?

L-O-L

Maybe if you ignore the assassination attempt against their pro Western President

[∞∞∞]

The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis.

I mean it's really not a glorified flu shot. With the flu shot, it's educated guesswork on the type of antigen that needs to be presented to your body. With mRNA vaccines, we tell our body to make the exact antigen (aka. spike protein) found in SARS-CoV-2. After the antigen is identified by the B cells, the the Humoral process is the same for both the flu shot and mRNA vaccine. Then with the normal DNA replication process, the RNA dissolves shortly afterwards as typical with RNA. It's pretty amazing technology with a lot of potential heading forward.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

Masks were (and still are) not stupid, especially early in the pandemic when we had little data about the virus, no vaccines, and only knew it was an airborne disease. We know masks work, especially N95, because airborne viral particles - while small - don't move in a linear motion. They erratically float around and get caught up in the twisting fibers of masks. Additionally, masks only need to protect you enough that you don't receive a deadly load of the virus; they're not designed as a panacea for infection.

Next time, put any piece of cotton or cloth over a boiling pot. You'll notice an immediate reduction of steam passing through. Now imagine the steam as a deadly virus, while keeping in mind water molecules are even smaller than SARS-CoV-2 (0.27 nanometers vs. 100 nanometers).

I can't speak to the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic, but I highly doubt there is some worldwide conspiracy. Most US departments, worldwide health organizations, and scientists still believe it originated from an animal -> human jump. We might never know, but it's also the most logical explanation considering how most viral pandemics have come to be.

[BDKJMU]

The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis.

I mean it's really not a glorified flu shot. With the flu shot, it's educated guesswork on the type of antigen that needs to be presented to your body. With mRNA vaccines, we tell our body to make the exact antigen (aka. spike protein) found in SARS-CoV-2. After the antigen is identified by the B cells, the the Humoral process is the same for both the flu shot and mRNA vaccine. Then with the normal DNA replication process, the RNA dissolves shortly afterwards as typical with RNA. It's pretty amazing technology with a lot of potential heading forward.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

Masks were (and still are) not stupid, especially early in the pandemic when we had little data about the virus, no vaccines, and only knew it was an airborne disease. We know masks work, especially N95, because airborne viral particles - while small - don't move in a linear motion. They erratically float around and get caught up in the twisting fibers of masks. Additionally, masks only need to protect you enough that you don't receive a deadly load of the virus; they're not designed as a panacea for infection.

Next time, put any piece of cotton or cloth over a boiling pot. You'll notice an immediate reduction of steam passing through. Now imagine the steam as a deadly virus, while keeping in mind water molecules are even smaller than SARS-CoV-2 (0.27 nanometers vs. 100 nanometers).

I can't speak to the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic, but I highly doubt there is some worldwide conspiracy. Most US departments, worldwide health organizations, and scientists still believe it originated from an animal -> human jump. We might never know, but it's also the most logical explanation considering how most viral pandemics have come to be.

Yeah. In a lab. Right near where they discovered the virus. A lab that happened to be doing gain of function research with a novel corona virus. What a coincidence.

[∞∞∞]

Viruses are almost always discovered near large cities, because its where they spread quickly and have the best chance of identification. However, they most often start in rural areas through zoonotic origins.

It also means very little when every major city in the world have virology institutes, and coronaviruses are some of the most common viruses in the world (so studying novel ones makes sense because they have the highest chance of causing issues).

If a virus was discovered first in NYC, it doesn't mean it came from NYU's virology institute. Wuhan is a major Chinese city.

[BDKJMU]

Viruses are almost always discovered near large cities, because its where they spread quickly and have the best chance of identification.

It means little when every major city in the world have virology institutes. And Wuhan is a major Chinese city.

If a virus was discovered first in NYC, it doesn't mean it came from NYU's virology institute.

It would be if it was a novel coronavirus traced to practically next door from NYU’s virology institute, and NYU’s virology institute was doing gain of function research on novel coronaviruses, with shoddy lab practices..

[∞∞∞]

Viruses are almost always discovered near large cities, because its where they spread quickly and have the best chance of identification.

It means little when every major city in the world have virology institutes. And Wuhan is a major Chinese city.

If a virus was discovered first in NYC, it doesn't mean it came from NYU's virology institute.

It would be if it was a novel coronavirus traced to practically next door from NYU’s virology institute, and NYU’s virology institute was doing gain of function research on novel coronaviruses, with shoddy lab practices..

Look man, it really doesn't matter. The virus got out there; my point is there's probably no worldwide conspiracy here. You can believe you know something the rest of us don't. It doesn't affect me either way.

I'm just a simple man who likes statistics. If most (all?) pandemics so far are zoonotic in origin, this one most likely is as well.

My original post was primarily to address the vaccine and masks.

[BDKJMU]

It would be if it was a novel coronavirus traced to practically next door from NYU’s virology institute, and NYU’s virology institute was doing gain of function research on novel coronaviruses, with shoddy lab practices..

Look man, it really doesn't matter. The virus got out there; my point is there's probably no worldwide conspiracy here. You can believe you know something the rest of us don't. It doesn't affect me either way.

I'm just a simple man who likes statistics. If most (all?) pandemics so far are zoonotic in origin, this one most likely is as well.

My original post was primarily to address the vaccine and masks.

It really doesn’t matter if the US was indirectly funding (NIH/NIAID to Eco Health Alliance to WIV) novel corona virus gain of function research in a Chinese lab where a novel coronavirus leaked from? It really doesn’t matter if Fauci (head of NIAID) and others in early 2020 pulled a CYA to try to paint the lab leak as a right wing conspiracy? Um, yeah..ok…

[BDKJMU]

Right wing conspiracy theory!..Oh wait, its CBS, not Fox News..

[JohnStOnge]

Your biased opinion doesn't move the needle. I will revise my opinion that SG has been right more than JSO on this thread if Ganny and Ibanez tell me that I'm wrong and JSO has been right more than SG.

I am not Ganny or Ibanez (shudder.....), but I will give you my .

COVID was accidentally released from a shoddy Chinese lab that was directly funded by the EcoHealth Alliance doing gain of function research that was illegal to do here in the U.S. and those funds were directed to EcoHealth Alliance at the orders of Fauci, as an end run around the rules he didn't agree with or as a way to funnel money into other areas for favors (there are probably multiple reasons, both good and bad that the money went were it did).

The coverup/suppression of the above started within weeks (February 2020) when Fauci realized that his name would come out as a primary funder of the research that directly led to this. He did what any career bureaucrat excels at, and that is muddying the waters enough to divert attention away from anything that hinted it might come back to implicate him (i.e. the commissioned paper that it wasn't from a lab). Throw in the media's revulsion of all things Trump and he had a willing patsy to peddle his false narrative that Trump's comments on it might be from a lab were wrong. Once the narrative was set and rolling, it took on a life of its own as people in power (media, politicians, etc.) had a vested interest in keeping it going, because to do otherwise would imply that they were wrong. Spreading around millions in new grant dollars and holding hostage existing grant dollars via proxy (they would go away if people started digging into COVID's origins), meant that Fauci (and others) had significant reason in doing what they did.

The COVID shot aka "vaccine" (and the furor around it) was peddled to keep the above narrative going and as a distraction from people digging into the history of where COVID 19 came from. The narrative snowballed into justifying lock-downs, mass forced shots, and usurpation of freedoms (making hay while the sun shines), etc.. The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis. But good business for Big Pharma, hence the mandates.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

The whole last three or so years is easily explainable through people not wanting to admit they were wrong (ego), people realizing they would be caught breaking the law, and people believing the government had their best interest in mind (this last point is my opinion and is greatly dependent on ones political and mental processes).

What a bunch of complete nonsense.

[Winterborn]

The COVID shot is nothing more than a glorified flu shot and designed to help boost the immune system of those that are most susceptible to COVID. Basically those 55+ and immunocompromised, the rest of us really didn't need it, provided we are moderately healthy but needed to be evaluated on a personal basis.

I mean it's really not a glorified flu shot. With the flu shot, it's educated guesswork on the type of antigen that needs to be presented to your body. With mRNA vaccines, we tell our body to make the exact antigen (aka. spike protein) found in SARS-CoV-2. After the antigen is identified by the B cells, the the Humoral process is the same for both the flu shot and mRNA vaccine. Then with the normal DNA replication process, the RNA dissolves shortly afterwards as typical with RNA. It's pretty amazing technology with a lot of potential heading forward.

The mask stupidity (and it was full blown stupidity not even remotely based in anything related to science due to the vast environmental circumstances around wearing one) was one more thing trotted out to help divert attention from the origins and keep a segment of the population under control and to project the idea that the "government" knew what was best (see first paragraph why they wanted to portray this).

Masks were (and still are) not stupid, especially early in the pandemic when we had little data about the virus, no vaccines, and only knew it was an airborne disease. We know masks work, especially N95, because airborne viral particles - while small - don't move in a linear motion. They erratically float around and get caught up in the twisting fibers of masks. Additionally, masks only need to protect you enough that you don't receive a deadly load of the virus; they're not designed as a panacea for infection.

Next time, put any piece of cotton or cloth over a boiling pot. You'll notice an immediate reduction of steam passing through. Now imagine the steam as a deadly virus, while keeping in mind water molecules are even smaller than SARS-CoV-2 (0.27 nanometers vs. 100 nanometers).

I can't speak to the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic, but I highly doubt there is some worldwide conspiracy. Most US departments, worldwide health organizations, and scientists still believe it originated from an animal -> human jump. We might never know, but it's also the most logical explanation considering how most viral pandemics have come to be.

It is a glorified flue shot. It temporally boosts your bodies response to a contagion. That is about it.

N95's work in a controlled lab environment for a very limited time. Nothing like what was proposed to work in the real world. But hey, people need to feel like they are in control so they don't panic. Masks were put in place for psychological reasons with the filmiest backing that is not only collopasing due to more rigorous testing (that correlates more to actual real world conditions) but that testing is validating what was known, and accepted, prior to this pandemic.

I never said there was a conspiracy. One of the only labs working on that particular protein splice, known for shoddy lab practices that has had a several oops in the past. No known animal crossover carrier has been found and a fact that said protein splice has never been found in another similar virus naturally.

It is not my logic that seems to be on flimsy ground. And CYA is a pretty powerful motivator especially when multi-millions of dollars were handed out in this area during 2020 to people directly involved in gain of function research, which just happened to coincide with denials from said parties that gain of function research could not of caused this. Not to mention that the very reason this line of research was shut down was because of concerns over ethics. Millions dead because of what people funded is a very powerful motivator. The U.S. and Chinese government have covered up much less for less risk in the past. I have been apart of projects that entail 10's of millions of dollars and the stupid crap that leaders do on those projects to not admit they were wrong is amazing. In a court of law, not admitting to millions dead is more than enough motivation for the narrative that was pushed out by the CDC. One which the Chinese were more than happy to go along with as it saved them face.

I do not think it was deliberate just a few people breaking the laws and got caught with their pants around their ankles because of shoddy lab practices due to the fact that the only place they could farm out the research to was a dictatorial regime that has multiple known human rights violations and a track record for cutting corners.